"As long as men die, liberty will never perish!"

[Peaker]

That's all there is to say, awesome speech.

[M. Johnson 1st MRB]

wow. that is one powerful speech, very relevant even today!

[Thomas2]

[Dawson 1st MRB]

[S. Richards]

That veteran is about as smart as a box of rocks. He hasn't seen the big picture yet.

[Pangilinan 1st MRB]

That veteran is about as smart as a box of rocks. He hasn't seen the big picture yet.

At least you finished it all the way through, but I stopped the moment he had doubts. He is the kind of veteran who the media loves to tout, the misinformed man who joined for money and not something greater.

And Dawson? That only proved he got into office with barely any credible background. He is and forever shall be in my mind, the human puppet for the true power in the WH. The Teleprompter.

As for Chaplin's speech, he's a noted Pacifist, and to me, alot of Pacifists are naive and unwilling to look evil in the eye and only look for dreams, unwilling to tackle that very bitterness. That, and there have been similar speeches by other chaps by the name of Lenin, Trotsky, and other Communist leaders who claim to do the same.

And their inheritors had killed more in the camps of Siberia and purges than Hitler did in the ovens.

I don't find it an inspiring speech, I find it a stupid speech in the context of the time, which is around the time of the First World War, antiquated tactics and modern weaponry, a highly fragile balance of power in Europe set off by an assassination done by Anarchs and Nationalists.

In all, rubbish.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Pangilinan 1st MRB

[Magic 1st MRB]

He hasn't seen the big picture yet.

What is the big picture?

Please do not say pride in country and nationalism because that is the small picture.

[Pangilinan 1st MRB]

There is no greater honor than to serve others.

Then what is the bigger picture? To ignore the nature of humanity and to believe in willynilly notions of 'peace' and 'brotherhood'? To me these are notions that do not translate to each and every individual. A calculating individual, inherently lustful of power, will do as much as he can to prey upon those not vigilant enough. There are men and women out there who do fight for God and Country, or God, Queen, and Country. Or for similar reasons thereof. To call the big picture of pride in one's country is to be naive. For what is a modern day country? There are very few absolute monarchs out there, I daresay none at all, whom a man can attest to fighting for.

The modern nation state came about with the dissolution of the absolute rulers and the creation of the Republican Democratic system. Men and ideals came to form a nation, rather than a right from above to rule. Men work together, and need be, fight together to keep their vision of a modern nation together. Sure it will come under fire and change, but man will be unwilling to discard the survival instinct that is greed. To obtain a surplus for yourself and those you care for, for some silly notion that is naive at it's nicest interpretation.

So, will you decry me for saying that is my big picture? That I want my nation to be strong and powerful? To be the very nation my parents and grandparents talked about at great length on? To me, to break down the United States into nothing more than a history lesson in the new world order, in which some men are more equal than others* would be a crime against humanity. No other nation has done so much good in this world. It has done bad, yes, what nation has been clean? What creation of man has been clean? But we export more wheat to nations who need it than anyone else. We provide the great deal of money provided to humanitarian groups, and our Navy is usually the first to respond to natural disasters. To see that as the 'small' picture is degrading and insulting to me.

So while you will say 'Please do not say pride in country and nationalism because that is the small picture', I dare say it. Because I am proud to be a naturalized citizen, where I have greater opportunities in advancement here, and I've had relatives in uniform knowing that there is no greater honor than to put oneself between his family, community, and nation; and those willing to rend it apart.

*see: Bolsheivik/Soviet Russia, a worker's paradise of 'peace and love' and several million dead with a 9mm bullet to the brain or frozen in Siberia.

[Nathan]

I'd have to side with Pang. It's a nice speech but it's very naive.

America does more good than anyone gives it credit for, doesn't mean we can do whatever bad we want but it does mean we're not devils if we do make a poor choice.

And the IVAW guy is mad about the war, that's fine but i disagree with him about there being any element of racism. There are plenty of good reasons to be against the Iraq war (in my opinion) but I don't agree with his at all. At least the first minute, I couldn't really sit through any more of that.

Hell my arguments against the war are financial, gain vs expense. I think we had something in Afg but we lost it when we started focusing on Iraq. And now we're a trillion in, not accounting for what will be spent for the next 60 years on the people maimed in the war. What do we have to show for our investment? What would we get if we don't pull out besides another trillion in debt?

There are plenty of good reasons to go to war. Humans don't all want good for each other. That's just not human nature. And when someone rises to power by taking it from others, they'll do it on the global stage too. And they have to be stopped to keep us all free. My favorite line from the Declaration of Independence is

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

Followed by:

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

And it's the same with war. It should never be enjoined lightly, but when it is clear that it must happen, men must stand up and fight.

America!

[Nathan]

Ok, I reread and realized the second quote is clearly my favorite, but I think the first one is a very interesting truth about people.