Romney Girl

[Barney]

Romney is a fool. He can not make his mind up for one thing and stick with, constantly flip flopping. He helped ship jobs overseas. Say what you will about it, that he may not have foreseen it would become a trend, or that he was just acting in his business' best interests as any good business man should, whatever. He still has the fucking balls to get up in front of the American public and try to tell us that we need to keep jobs in America? After you sent some overseas yourself? Fuck him. Romney is a God damn tool.

I'm not completely all pro-democrat or pro-republican. I have some strong believes that are republican in nature, and some strong beliefs that are very democratic in nature. In this election I just find myself not liking Mitt Romney at all. I think he's a shithead.

I think Obama has been doing a great job thus far in his term in office and as there is no one, in my eyes, better suited to replace him I will be voting to keep President Obama in office.

[Lafy BAR]

Romney is a fool. He can not make his mind up for one thing and stick with, constantly flip flopping. He helped ship jobs overseas. Say what you will about it, that he may not have foreseen it would become a trend, or that he was just acting in his business' best interests as any good business man should, whatever. He still has the fucking balls to get up in front of the American public and try to tell us that we need to keep jobs in America? After you sent some overseas yourself? Fuck him. Romney is a God damn tool.

I'm not completely all pro-democrat or pro-republican. I have some strong believes that are republican in nature, and some strong beliefs that are very democratic in nature. In this election I just find myself not liking Mitt Romney at all. I think he's a shithead.

I think Obama has been doing a great job thus far in his term in office and as there is no one, in my eyes, better suited to replace him I will be voting to keep President Obama in office.

I do not understand why flip-flopping is such a big issue to Americans. Changing your mind about a subject is evidence that you're open to thinking about things and being persuaded. You hit the nail on the head when you said that he was acting in his business' best interests. The expectations of a business man and those of a president are quite different. A comparison might be the difference between being an random citizen and a judge. The first can have any opinions they like, the second is required to be impartial. That doesn't mean that anyone who has ever been opinionated isn't qualified to be a good judge.

[Kirkendall 1st MRB]

I do not understand why flip-flopping is such a big issue to Americans. Changing your mind about a subject is evidence that you're open to thinking about things and being persuaded. You hit the nail on the head when you said that he was acting in his business' best interests. The expectations of a business man and those of a president are quite different. A comparison might be the difference between being an random citizen and a judge. The first can have any opinions they like, the second is required to be impartial. That doesn't mean that anyone who has ever been opinionated isn't qualified to be a good judge.

Pretty much this all the way.

Coincidentally, Barney, on the topic of flip-flopping, whatever happened to Gitmo? Why aren't you holding Obama accountable for his numerous flip-flops?

[Barney]

I do not understand why flip-flopping is such a big issue to Americans. Changing your mind about a subject is evidence that you're open to thinking about things and being persuaded. You hit the nail on the head when you said that he was acting in his business' best interests. The expectations of a business man and those of a president are quite different. A comparison might be the difference between being an random citizen and a judge. The first can have any opinions they like, the second is required to be impartial. That doesn't mean that anyone who has ever been opinionated isn't qualified to be a good judge.

I think the big issue to the American public is and always will be the fact that he's flip-flopped so much, stood behind nothing, and had the balls to say one of the problems in America is one he helped pioneer. While flip flopping may seem to some as being "open-minded" the bigger, and broader message it sends to the voting public is "I'll say what I think you want to hear so I get your vote". Whether that is true or not it's the general sentiment that's felt by the people. That's always going to bug the general population and as idealistic as it is Americans are still going to want some "perfect candidate" ya know the one you see in movies and stuff. So on a base level they're going to have a bad taste in their mouths about stuff like this.

There is a strong chance he could be impartial, as you have said. In his new role as President carrying out what the citizens want. Like a good businessman. I personally don't like the fact that I feel he, personally, doesn't stand for anything.

Pretty much this all the way.

Coincidentally, Barney, on the topic of flip-flopping, whatever happened to Gitmo? Why aren't you holding Obama accountable for his numerous flip-flops?

Good question. Well, like I said in my original post I have views that are conservative, and views that are liberal. I personally don't give a fuck about gitmo not having been closed because I think it was a fucking retarded decision that Obama made to attempt to close it. I'm glad who ever it was talked him out of it. It was one of the biggest (if only, trying to remember other shit he's said in his original campaign) claims/promise that he made that I hated.

Yeah. Get rid of gitmo. Then where do all those fuck heads go? Folding right back in with the purely wonderful indigenous populations of their home countries to wave American flags, I'm sure.

Besides that I personally like how he's taken on fighting the current wars and handling the current situation of other countries own internal problems. Offering limited logistical support with no definite commitment. I think he's playing it smart. Which means he's taking advice well from those who know more than him when it comes to these things.

Edited post to include Kirkendall's quote.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Barney 1st MRB

[Kirkendall 1st MRB]

snip

The issue I have with your explanation is that you don't care when he flips on something you have no opinion on. I was using Gitmo as an example of one of the President's flips. It's not the point of whether or not closing Gitmo was a good idea.

He also promised to have troops out of Afghanistan by 2014, but is now planning to have active combat after. He was elected with support from Catholics because of his opposition to gay marriage, however he did not defend the "Defense of Marriage Act." Now, he has put out support for gay marriage. (Regardless how you feel regarding the topic, he still changed his mind, and that's the point. Not whether marriage of the gays is right or not) And financially, he campaigned against the Bush tax cuts, and promised to freeze federal spending. Bush tax cuts were allowed to continue (yes, it was in a deal with the Republicans, but the fact they are still continuing is the point) and federal spending is definitely not frozen. I personally may agree or disagree with some or all of his flips, but that doesn't matter. He still changed his mind, and remains inconsistent on some of the biggest issues in American politics. You say you are unsure if/what Romney would stand for, would Obama be any more steady a platform?

[Barney]

The issue I have with your explanation is that you don't care when he flips on something you have no opinion on. I was using Gitmo as an example of one of the President's flips. It's not the point of whether or not closing Gitmo was a good idea.

He also promised to have troops out of Afghanistan by 2014, but is now planning to have active combat after. He was elected with support from Catholics because of his opposition to gay marriage, however he did not defend the "Defense of Marriage Act." Now, he has put out support for gay marriage. (Regardless how you feel regarding the topic, he still changed his mind, and that's the point. Not whether marriage of the gays is right or not) And financially, he campaigned against the Bush tax cuts, and promised to freeze federal spending. Bush tax cuts were allowed to continue (yes, it was in a deal with the Republicans, but the fact they are still continuing is the point) and federal spending is definitely not frozen. I personally may agree or disagree with some or all of his flips, but that doesn't matter. He still changed his mind, and remains inconsistent on some of the biggest issues in American politics. You say you are unsure if/what Romney would stand for, would Obama be any more steady a platform?

+1

all very good points. I guess then for me it's just coming down to the fact that I'm comfortable with Obama and the decision's he's made and believe for me he's a better choice than Romney.

[Perrone]

Have you heard a Republican talking about why they don't want a bill? For example, the new vice-presidential candidate, Paul Ryan:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o1yTY2MciOk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Or, go back in time to Milton Friedman, the (in)famous economist talking about the wealthy:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wi-D24oCa10" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Do these two examples not think they are right? Are they just trying to stuff their own pockets or make Obama (or the middle-aged woman) wrong?

If we pushed Paul Ryan's bills through, Medicare and Social Security would be essentially killed off. Medicare would be reduced to a voucher system which would help even fewer people then it already does. As well, his SS idea is basically the same plan which economists in the past have said is a bad idea, privatization of Social Security.

Ryan's budget would cut large swaths from other domestic social services, and pump up spending in the military. Ryan, as well as Republicans, supported the agreement to cut both domestic and military spending, only to go back and say we need to spend more in the military and cut deeper into social programs.

As for Milton Friedman, he's stuffing his own pocket. He champions the ultra wealthy who have systematically taken over the Republican party to allow them to send jobs off of sea's, break up unions for their benefit (not their employees), create loopholes and tax breaks that favor the wealthy more so then their counterparts for the middle and poor Americans.

As for Gitmo, he made those promises when he was campaigning. When he came into office, the country had been in a Recession for months, with millions of jobs lost, businesses failing and people demanding something be done. Obama compromised with Republicans... on their terms, to get things like the Stimulus, Bailouts, Health Care Reform, and a few other things passed before Republicans took a hardline stance and started voting against and filibustering everything Dem's put on the table.

Also Kirkendall, the Health Care Reforms would not have "Socialized" the health care system. A socialized system would fall entirely under government control, that would not have happened. The HCR's would have opened up a cheaper public option that would have allowed those who couldn't or barely afford the private options.

Obama has been the best he can be under the current circumstances. What with the Republican party and their mouth piece of Fox News (which I found your comparison to MSNBC hilarious because it's totally false, MSNBC hires right leaning talkers who say what they want with no reprisals, where as the left leaning talkers on Fox have to always give into the right supporters or they'd be fired and blacklisted) spewing anti-Obama rhetoric on a daily basis. Calling for him to be a one term president since he was elected, refusing to compromise and create out right lies (death panels, guns, his "apology tour", etc. etc.). Obama and Democrats have continually tried to compromise, but a compromise is where parties meet and usually agree with a 50/50 or 60/40 split. So far, the "compromises" that Democrats have made with Republicans have been more so of a 20/80 (D/R) or 10/90 (D/R) kind of deal. That isn't a compromise, but Democrats and Obama are trying to put things through that will actually help the American people.

I'm an independent, I voted for John McCain. I am thankful that McCain lost, because with how he's been acting in the Senate, and the fact that Palin is seen internationally as an idiot, yeah, it's a good thing Obama won. Obama has done the best job he can considering how much flak he gets from everyone. I don't recall Bush ever being attacked this much by any major media outlet or to the extremes that many media outlets have allowed through as "news".

Kirkendall, you'll disagree with me I know, but your view point is just blatantly wrong. You want to spread the blame around, but the truth of the matter is that much of the current political dishevel lies with Republicans, and they should be called out and held responsible for what they've done. Have there been some Democrats who've played this way too? Yes, but as a party, the Democrats have not gone to the extremes the Republican party has gone to. Are the Democrats to blame for this situation too? Yes, but not in the way you are thinking. They allowed this situation to occur by playing along with the Republicans and letting them get their way. They do not specifically call out Republican Obstructionism, where as Republicans will attack any and every little thing, in or out of context (remember, context is important) to make Obama and the Democrats look bad.

As a new recruit, I might be overstepping my bounds with what I've just said. And I respect your opinions Kirkendall, but opinions can be wrong.

[Ford 1st MRB]

What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior.

Well I am king.

Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.

I am your king.

Well I didn't vote for you.

You don't vote for kings.

Well how'd you become king then?

The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Sorry, continue your debate.

[Morton]

What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior.

Well I am king.

Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.

I am your king.

Well I didn't vote for you.

You don't vote for kings.

Well how'd you become king then?

The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

Sorry, continue your debate.

You sir win the debate.

/thread

[Englebretson 1st MRB]

So I'm just going to put it out there that fucking with Kirk will not get you very far at all. It will probably get you stabbed numerous times before you realize you have bleed out.

[Kirkendall 1st MRB]

Also Kirkendall, the Health Care Reforms would not have "Socialized" the health care system. A socialized system would fall entirely under government control, that would not have happened. The HCR's would have opened up a cheaper public option that would have allowed those who couldn't or barely afford the private options.

I was actually planning on thoroughly thrashing you. To the point where President Obama would have called your ass a national disaster zone. Then I saw this section.

You have no idea what my point was do you? That's sad. All your overzealous typing, and what it comes down to is you missed my point entirely. I stated how many times throughout nearly all of my posts about agreeing or disagreeing with certain viewpoints, in fact I have been very careful to not let my own viewpoints slip out. Instead, I posted those links as examples of two very intelligent people talking about things they are fervent about. And you call them, worse you call me, (a) fool(s) for saying or posting such things. What's worse upon that, you bolster your argument with ad hominem comments. You attack me directly, saying I'm wrong, basically practicing this fervent "Republican Obstructionism" that you're trying so hard to prove to me.

Except, you haven't proven anything. All you've proven to me is that you dislike the current Republicans and you dislike Fox. You basically just "spewed" (your word choice not mine) some Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, attack towards me that doesn't move me anywhere. In fact, because you worded your "argument" the way you did, you just ended up on my shit list. You have no citations of ridiculous points, no backup to anything you say.

It's all ponce and circumstance, all fluff. It's an argument of big talk with no meat. The thing that's worst about your argument is it's all opinion. Contrary to you, oh problem with American politics, is I can accept others for who they are. I have a friend who's convinced President Obama is a Muslim, and I'd take a bullet from my own gun for him. I have a friend who'd sooner die than admit to being anything other than a Communist. And I'd take up the hammer and sickle to help him out for a time. The point of those? (Other than to add nullifying personification to my soapbox) Both of those stances disagree with me completely. But they aren't wrong. They're different. And I don't attack them for being different, I love hearing about it. I loved reading Panda's responses, Kevin Swartz's misspelled tangent, and Barney's platforms. I would challenge them to backup points, as they would challenge me.

Then you came along, and you attacked me directly. Without knowing my opinion. You made an assumption. Which made an ass out of you. The levels which I were writing were dwarfed when I realized you had no idea what I was arguing. But you've proved my point, maybe only to me, and I didn't even have to let loose a broadside.

[Jablonski]

Am I the only one who is watching this for the arguments, and not for politics?

[Lafy BAR]

Am I the only one who is watching this for the arguments, and not for politics?

In my post in here I was very careful not to incur the Wrath of Kirk

[Perrone]

Well Kirkendall, except for the issue that everything I've stated is fact and can be googled, you are correct that I was wrong about you. I had read S. Smith's post... but I ended up confusing his post with yours. That was my fault. I apologize and withdraw what I said about your opinion. I was in the wrong and it was my fault. Whether you accept my apology or not is up to you, but I am again, sorry for calling you out when it was not you who said what I was fighting against.

[Cutts]

I'd just like to point out as an outsider, in regards to page 1 of this thread, that there is no comparison between MSNBC and Fox News.

MSNBC is certainly a dumbed down news outlet, with a left leaning stance.

However, Fox News is so massively biased to the right that it has become an international joke. It is so extreme, it leaves one wondering if

there is a team of democrat comedians running it as an elaborate parody of the republicans; unfortunately, it is actually representative of

what the majority of republican voters believe... or if they don't believe it yet, they soon will because Fox told them.

This is pretty fucking disgraceful, and its something that terrifies many people outside of the US who pay attention to US politics... and I

generally lean to the right.

[Perrone]

I'd just like to point out as an outsider, in regards to page 1 of this thread, that there is no comparison between MSNBC and Fox News.

MSNBC is certainly a dumbed down news outlet, with a left leaning stance.

However, Fox News is so massively biased to the right that it has become an international joke. It is so extreme, it leaves one wondering if

there is a team of democrat comedians running it as an elaborate parody of the republicans; unfortunately, it is actually representative of

what the majority of republican voters believe... or if they don't believe it yet, they soon will because Fox told them.

This is pretty fucking disgraceful, and its something that terrifies many people outside of the US who pay attention to US politics... and I

generally lean to the right.

Fox does not represent a majority of Republican voters belief's. They represent a minority of the extreme fringe. But the problem is, that most of them do get suckered into believing what's being said because Fox and the rest of the right wing media outlets report the exact same thing over and over. Also, there are many Republicans who are turned off by what is happening to their party... but they are afraid of what will happen if they voice their dissatisfaction. I live in the southern part of the US, so I know a lot of Republicans. A number of them don't like the direction that Fox and the Tea Party are taking them to, but are afraid of what will happen should they step out of line and voice their opinion. I know a few who had done just that, and they've been ostracized by their Republican "friends" and even family.

You aren't the only one who is afraid of the path that Republicans and Fox are basically trying to lead us down. An Oligarchy society lead by the few super rich elite with the facade of being a Representative Republic.

[Cutts]

Fox does not represent a majority of Republican voters belief's. They represent a minority of the extreme fringe. But the problem is, that most of them do get suckered into believing what's being said because Fox and the rest of the right wing media outlets report the exact same thing over and over. Also, there are many Republicans who are turned off by what is happening to their party... but they are afraid of what will happen if they voice their dissatisfaction. I live in the southern part of the US, so I know a lot of Republicans. A number of them don't like the direction that Fox and the Tea Party are taking them to, but are afraid of what will happen should they step out of line and voice their opinion. I know a few who had done just that, and they've been ostracized by their Republican "friends" and even family.

You aren't the only one who is afraid of the path that Republicans and Fox are basically trying to lead us down. An Oligarchy society lead by the few super rich elite with the facade of being a Representative Republic.

Well, I must say its a relief to hear that. I guess its just because the extreme right are so vocal, that the moderate view doesn't get heard.

Funniest thing I ever saw on Fox news... their studio was being picketted by some LGBT organistion, complaining about homophobic comments made on the network.

One of Fox's reporters was covering the story, so he went outside and stood in front of them while reading his report. Amusingly, they were so loud, that they kept

interupting him, so he got angry, and started shouting homophobic abuse at them! So basically, it was just an excuse to go out on the street and try to provoke a riot,

since if he actually wanted to read his report, he could have just gone inside the studio and done it there. Classic fox douchery!

[Jablonski]

Its pretty much how fox works.

[Englebretson 1st MRB]

[Ford 1st MRB]

Why the comparison of Fox and MSNBC?

If you wanted a fair comparison on how slanted the media outlets are, you would be comparing Fox with CNN.

Fox is owned by Republicans who refuse to allow anything that doesn't agree with their point of view to be aired, as does CNN, which is owned by Democrats.

To say Fox's point of view is how all Republicans think is absurd, from anyone.

Before you go thinking I'm republican, I'm not. I don't like Obama either, I think he is the beginning of the downfall of our democracy.

A President of the United States that shows no respect for our flag that hundreds of thousands of american soldiers have died for? Get the fuck out of here if you honestly think HE is the best choice for the leader of our country.

Yes we can!!!

[Morton]

Fox does not represent a majority of Republican voters belief's. They represent a minority of the extreme fringe. But the problem is, that most of them do get suckered into believing what's being said because Fox and the rest of the right wing media outlets report the exact same thing over and over. Also, there are many Republicans who are turned off by what is happening to their party... but they are afraid of what will happen if they voice their dissatisfaction. I live in the southern part of the US, so I know a lot of Republicans. A number of them don't like the direction that Fox and the Tea Party are taking them to, but are afraid of what will happen should they step out of line and voice their opinion. I know a few who had done just that, and they've been ostracized by their Republican "friends" and even family.

You aren't the only one who is afraid of the path that Republicans and Fox are basically trying to lead us down. An Oligarchy society lead by the few super rich elite with the facade of being a Representative Republic.

I too live in the south and was a moderate. I spoke out against how crazy the Tea Party has become and *BOOM* a lot of my family says "You a Lefty Socialist Phil!" Its crazy. The far right has also become increasingly militant, I check out their website so I can counter my family when they bring it up, and a lot of comments are how "We need to rise up and start a second revolution" and go down hill from there. As for the news, I tend to get mine from BBC News. Less political Slant that way.

[Englebretson 1st MRB]

Lets all vote for Kirkendall so he can become president and give us all free helicopters.

[Morton]

Lets all vote for Kirkendall so he can become president and give us all free helicopters.

I second this.

[Jablonski]

Lets all vote for Kirkendall so he can become president and give us all free helicopters.

absolutely!

[Perrone]

Why the comparison of Fox and MSNBC?

If you wanted a fair comparison on how slanted the media outlets are, you would be comparing Fox with CNN.

Fox is owned by Republicans who refuse to allow anything that doesn't agree with their point of view to be aired, as does CNN, which is owned by Democrats.

To say Fox's point of view is how all Republicans think is absurd, from anyone.

Before you go thinking I'm republican, I'm not. I don't like Obama either, I think he is the beginning of the downfall of our democracy.

A President of the United States that shows no respect for our flag that hundreds of thousands of american soldiers have died for? Get the fuck out of here if you honestly think HE is the best choice for the leader of our country.

Yes we can!!!

You are right, CNN is slanted... just not in the direction you are thinking of. It's slanted more to the right these days then it is to the left. With hosts like Erik Erickson and Dana Loesch who say some of the most outrageous things on CNN that would be something that you'd think Democrats would not want to even appear on their channel... going by your logic here Ford. If we were talking about the CNN back in the 1990's, then I'd say you were right. But the CNN of today is leaning more towards the right then the left. Dana and Erik have free reign to say and do anything they want and they get away with it because CNN wants to draw some of the Tea Party people to their network.

By the way, I should note right here that CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Headline News, and other news networks are owned and operated by corporations. Many of these corporations are owned or a group holds a major chunk of stock in these companies are Republicans.

Also, can I ask, what other channel has so mislead their viewers? Sandra Fluke who went before Congressional Democrats to testify about her friend who needed birth control for an ovarian cyst she had, and her school health care denied it on religious grounds despite the fact that her doctor and even a second doctor both stated that the best and safest way to ensure she kept her ovary that had the cyst was through BC pills; because she could not afford the BC pills on her own, she lost her ovary. Fox and every other right wing media outlet reported that Fluke was a woman who slept around with multiple men, went before Congressional Democrats to demand that she should have free access to BC pills so she can sleep around... That is simply the tip of the ice berg though. Every issue Fox reports is so slanted to the right that they will change what really happened in order to fit into their message...

I'm not saying you can not have a difference in opinion. Frankly, I don't like a number of things Obama has done, such as allowing Gitmo to remain open, letting the Bush Tax cuts continue, the unrestricted drone bombings that have killed hundreds of innocent bystanders, and more. But, I have never seen him show any disrespect towards our soldiers or the flag. Can you show me a independent (as in neither left or right... there are still some small independent news organizations out there) sources in full context, not like one or two sentences, of where he said/did something that was disrespectful to our soldiers and the flag?

And yes, I do believe that Obama is the best choice when you compare him to Romney/Ryan. Romney is more of a puppet, he'll say whatever he's told to say. Listen to some of his speeches during the primary and he sounds different compared to what he's saying now. Ryan... just a few things to put out there, up until his "budget" plan was announced, most people in Wisconsin didn't know him that well or what he actually did; then you have him attempting to re-write the official definition of rape; his budget plan called for sharp cuts in domestic spending while increasing military spending greatly; wants to turn medicare into a voucher system which would greatly limit the services that it could provide to those on it, especially older Americans.

Perhaps if Republicans stopped playing party politics and started doing something to help Americans, we wouldn't be in as bad of a shape as we are now.

Edit: Morton, I know how you feel. My entire side of my fathers family is die hard Republicans. I voted for McCain the last election because I thought he might do a better job as he had more experience, and they loved me. I've announced that I plan to vote for Obama this election, I'm now being completely scorned and a number of names have been flung at me. My father has even shown dislike towards me for having a different political view from him. Of course... compared to my other siblings I've always lived in their shadows, so he pretty much thinks I'm an idiot.

Doesn't matter if I present evidence or not, it's always the same "You have no idea what your talking about." When I questioned him about Romney refusing to release more tax returns, it's "It doesn't matter because Obama won't release his grades." When I showed him a BBC report that interviewed the Israeli Prime Minister about the Obama Administration being the best supporters of Israel that was responding to Mitt Romney implying that Obama hasn't done anything for Israel since he came into office, he said "They are Brit's, they don't know anything about American politics." He said to me today that he heard, and defended it after he said he didn't believe it was true, that Obama was celebrating Ramadan because he didn't have his wedding ring or watch on. Awhile back, he even talked about the possibility that Obama wasn't born in the US or was ineligible for holding the office of the President of the United States.

My dad isn't an idiot, he retired a Lieutenant Colonel from the Army.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Perrone 1st MRB