George Zimmerman

[borschtBomber BAR]

Here is the bottom line and I wish to god all the retards on Facebook/Twitter/interwebz would realize it....the jury heard everything, they were there for all the facts in the court and found him not guilty. Yet people whine for 'justice for Trayvon'.....what the hell are they talking about? I'm willing to bet that 90% of all the people repeating this didn't pay attention to half the trial because anyone who paid any attention at all would realize what a joke it was to charge Zimmerman with 2nd Degree murder. Justice was served but nobody will accept it because their biased view wasn't proven correct.

Now this talk of the DOJ wanting to press civil rights charges? Give me a big fucking break...this kid was no angel and nothing about this whole damn incident says anything about civil rights. I hate the media as they continue to race bait this whole pile of crap.

this case has pissed me off to no end with how Obama had to open his stupid trap on it and then of course the media starts spreading false information.

[Balian 1st MRB]

I pretty much agree with Morton.

[Yamagata 1st MRB]

I pretty much agree with Morton.

I agree with Parker on the subject.

[Peaker]

borshthbomber pretty much echoes my thoughts apart from the passive agressive crack at Obama. The only thing that is racial in this case is the fact that if Zimmerman was black, he would most likely have been condemned, which is unfair to black people, but the verdict rendered was the correct one.

[Arevicci]

borshthbomber pretty much echoes my thoughts apart from the passive agressive crack at Obama. The only thing that is racial in this case is the fact that if Zimmerman was black, he would most likely have been condemned, which is unfair to black people, but the verdict rendered was the correct one.

What? No, the racial part is what the public and media has made this into. That's preposterous that you would say something like that, something so naive and ridiculous. Just because people say things like that, doesn't make them true. Sometimes justice fails all together, not because of race.

[borschtBomber BAR]

Passive aggressive? Thought I was being somewhat direct, it was his idiotic remarks about this case from the beginning that helped fuel the fire. Since when does a US president comment on a local investigation involving a single non high profile person? The fact that just about everyday this stuff happens and he doesn't say blip about it should tell you something about him and his agenda. I can probably find dozens of cases of other races killing all other races, mixed every which way but does Obama comment on them?

I will also say this, I sit on my communities homeowners board and we have recently seen some obviously drug related activity in the back of our neighborhood...the problem? The cops don't give a shit, tell you to call the non emergency number (which I believe is the number that Zimmerman called) and then 'if' they send someone out they want to come and talk to the person that made the call. Yeah, makes complete sense right, lets let the bad guys know who made the call because you know they won't do anything. So just maybe he was tired of basically nothing happening about crime in his neighborhood? You watch and report and jack shit happens because they show up after the fact. Not saying he was right in all his actions, but I can kind of understand.

Let me be clear, I don't think Zimmerman is this perfect human being or should he be made some sort of model of citizenship. But this whole situation got blown way out of hand by a lot of deceitful news reporting and race baiting.

As an example, why nothing about this case when it happened back in 2009?

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stori...ott-not-guilty/

Edited July 15, 2013 by borschtBomber BAR

[Peaker]

Ahem, i'm sorry, but there is definitely a racial bias in law enforcement and in tribunals in the US. That's something you can't deny or brush over, do you think that it's a coincidence that 60% of the prison population in the US is Hispanic or Black, despite those two groups comprising 30% of the total population of the US?

Case in point: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-574331...-warning-shots/

If you don't think tribunals hold a racial bias, then you're delusional Arevicci.

Now Borsht, the way I see it, Obama commented on an issue that made national coverage which ties in with his gun control agenda, something every politician does. I don't see how discussing something that's considered an important matter by much of the nation "idiotic". Sure the case itself isn't that much different or extraordinary, but that's the way the media works. Certainly you can criticize how our mass medias behave overall, but being president, you kinda have to play the game.

[borschtBomber BAR]

Playing the game or not does not make it any less idiotic. The problem is that the facts in this case were all screwed up intentionally from the start from both politicians and the media. From NBC editing the 911 tapes to all the criticism by politicians about the investigation early on talking about profiling and racism. And then what did the trial show? It showed exactly what the Sanford PD originally said, there wasn't any evidence showing Zimmerman was at fault, he acted in self defense.

But now the masses are still yelling for 'Justice for Trayvon' even though wasn't justice served? Again, if even half those people who are bleating that out like sheep watched any of the trial they would realize (probably not since they are predisposed to GZs guilt) this case was a railroad job and a complete waste of taxpayer money.

This case had nothing to do with race...even in court it had nothing to do with race but somehow that angle keeps getting pursued. Funny that you bring up Hispanics, Peaker seeing as Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic.

[Peaker]

Show me at which point I said that Zimmerman was guilty? I agree that the verdict rendered was the correct one, however it doesn't make it any less true that a black man or a visible Hispanic would have been more likely to have been convicted in the same circumstances, the article I posted above is an example of that. He might identify as Hispanic, but he's very definitively white and that carries a certain privilege in the American courtroom, and that's definitely an issue worth discussing and addressing. However I will agree that there was a gross exaggeration by the media, that said, when you're president, you're expected to comment on issues which have national coverage, not to mention it does tie in with the democrat agenda towards gun control (Which I support). If Zimmerman didn't carry a gun with him, this whole mess wouldn't have happened and the kid would still be alive, he might have had a few more bruises, but there were witnesses on site and the police was called.

[Arevicci]

There's always bias, but to make a bold statement like that, like it is a sure thing to happen everytime, is ridiculous.

[Morton]

I actually looked into that case, the CBS article is slanted towards making Alexander look like an innocent woman. However the evidence disagrees. Gray (her husband) were having an argument. It got heated. Alexander went into the garage, with out being followed. In the garage, instead of escaping she grabbed her pistol, took the safety off, chambered a round and walked in and took a shot at Gary fired a warning shot through the living room wall, at head height about were Gary was standing. This is after Gary told his sons to gather their clothes so they can leave. There was no evidence of Gary having struck Alexander that night (however he does admit to being abusive in the past.) The prosecution had tried to plea bargain with Alexander, but she refused. Alexander also ignored the judge and went and confronted Gary 4 months after her arrest.

This case had nothing to do with racism. In fact you bringing up that case to use as evidence of racism in Tribunals almost seems like a Red herring.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Morton 1st MRB

[Lehman 1st MRB]

Everyone who is licensed to carry a firearm is well aware that if the need to use it comes about, there will be years of grief and court... no matter if it was justified or not. He would not have used it if he didn't fear for his life. If Martin was truly unarmed, there was no way for Zimmerman to know that for sure. Obviously if Martin was close enough to punch he was close enough to pull a knife and use it... or maybe he had a firearm of his own that he didn't get the chance to pull yet. None of us were actually there, but I highly doubt Zimmerman would give up a life in a gated community if he didn't have to.

[Lehman 1st MRB]

Also,

http://dcclothesline.com/2013/07/15/trayvo...r-atlas-shrugs/

Take this for what it's worth. Not familiar with their credibility level, but judging by the pictures on his social media, I'd believe it.

[Peaker]

Morton: Are you legit denying that there's racism in tribunals? Like, for real? Wow. After looking into the case myself, it's true the CBS was somewhat slanted towards the mother, however it doesn't change the core of the argument.

Lehman: The link you posted doesn't work for me, but I've never been a fan of Ayn Rand or her supporters. Also, I criticized the fact that he had a gun in the first place, not that he used it. If people have access to firearms readily, they will more readily use them, as this example shows. I've been in street scuffles my share of times, and I never thought about pulling a gun on someone, because here people don't carry guns in the street.

Arrevici: It would be nice if you actually read what I said instead of calling me out on my "naivety" and my "preposterousness". I didn't say it happened all the time, I said that being white in a tribunal gives you an advantage over being black, which is a problem. The advantage isn't tangible, it's not something you can touch, but it does affect your chances, as conviction rates for minorities show.

[Morton]

Not denying that racism plays a part in the courts. I'm denying that that specific case has anything to do with racism, and appeared to be a red herring.

However I will say racism isn't as rampant as you make it seem. When a certain group glorifies crime and violence (as in gangs and gangsta rap) I don't find it surprising that they make up a large part of the prison population.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Morton 1st MRB

[Arevicci]

borshthbomber pretty much echoes my thoughts apart from the passive agressive crack at Obama. The only thing that is racial in this case is the fact that if Zimmerman was black, he would most likely have been condemned, which is unfair to black people, but the verdict rendered was the correct one.

Show me at which point I said that Zimmerman was guilty? I agree that the verdict rendered was the correct one, however it doesn't make it any less true that a black man or a visible Hispanic would have been more likely to have been convicted in the same circumstances

Apparently you weren't very clear on that Peaker, my perception of your posts says otherwise.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Arevicci 1st MRB

[Morton]

Two things. One let us keep this civil or this thread will be locked. Second, the biggest complaint I really have with the Zimmerman case is that Martin may have been innocent, and if he had committed a crime he should have been judged by a jury of his peers, not one man with a gun and suspicions. The point is, if Zimmerman had shown restraint and intelligence instead of bravado brought on by having a gun, none of this would have happened. The second biggest complaint is how people are labeling Martin as either a Martyr or a Thug. I personally believe that he was just some kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got scared. Fight or Flight kicked in and he chose fight, which was one of the things that lead to his death.

[Peaker]

borshthbomber pretty much echoes my thoughts apart from the passive agressive crack at Obama. The only thing that is racial in this case is the fact that if Zimmerman was black, he would most likely have been condemned, which is unfair to black people, but the verdict rendered was the correct one.

Show me at which point I said that Zimmerman was guilty? I agree that the verdict rendered was the correct one, however it doesn't make it any less true that a black man or a visible Hispanic would have been more likely to have been convicted in the same circumstances

Apparently you weren't very clear on that Peaker, my perception of your posts says otherwise.

Let me clarify with appropriate bolded text.

Also Morton, gangsta rap is a produce of the culture most black people are forced to live in. I do not think it is however a significant cause of ethnic criminality, more like a symptom. The cycle goes (Roughly) like this:

1. Ethnic minorities live (a lot more) in poverty, leading to fewer opportunities, and amongst the leftover opportunities, some are closed to them by virtue of their race.

2. Money thus become one of the few possible way to climb the social ladder, which is difficult to acquire because of 1.

3. A part of those who don't have opportunities turn to crime in order to acquire 2.

4. A part of those who commit crime are judged by tribunals, which have a negative bias towards their ethnicity, leading to further ghettoization and higher conviction rates, as well as harsher sentences.

5. Black Criminals make up a higher part of the prison population, perpetuating number 1, which in turn perpetuates the whole cycle.

And voilà. We have to remember that violent criminality is primarily a result of poverty, however due to the way black and hispanic persons are portrayed by the medias (Think about how many times there was a report about a crime commited by a black man on news channels, despite it being completely inconsequential) and the general racist bias inherent in the current American culture (Though Canada definitely isn't perfect either), juries, judges and law enforcement are more likely to profile or treat a black person differently, and it's a kind of treatment that perpetuates the whole cycle, and allows white people to keep their privilege. Not every issue is about race, but racism affects most issues by virtue of being systemic.

I hope that wasn't too academic, but I'm certain I can find a few good ressources on White privilege and systemic racism if anyone is interested.

[Ultranator BAR]

Two things. One let us keep this civil or this thread will be locked. Second, the biggest complaint I really have with the Zimmerman case is that Martin may have been innocent, and if he had committed a crime he should have been judged by a jury of his peers, not one man with a gun and suspicions. The point is, if Zimmerman had shown restraint and intelligence instead of bravado brought on by having a gun, none of this would have happened. The second biggest complaint is how people are labeling Martin as either a Martyr or a Thug. I personally believe that he was just some kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and got scared. Fight or Flight kicked in and he chose fight, which was one of the things that lead to his death.

I agree with your first point, Morton. Everyone should share their opinions, but not put down the rest for theirs. Try avoiding words like "Stupid", "Ridiculous", "Delusional", and "Retard" please. I don't think Zimmerman should have been found guilty, but I do think he should've stayed in his car as suggested by others. Also, I can understand his frustration with waiting on police to act. I tried calling 911 to report a knife fight at the edge of a bridge in the back of a city park once. Our city's biggest summer festival was going on, and there were like 15 cops 20 feet away. I couldn't get to them because I would have to get past the 20 some teenagers gathered around the fight.

So, I tried to the 911 operator that it was happening at the bridge in the back of Headwaters Park. They wanted an address. I told them it wasn't at a street, it was in the back of headwaters park, and she went back and forth with me for like 5 minutes. It's frustrating, but I don't think that even if I had a gun, I would go jump in there and try and stop that mess myself.

[Dawson 1st MRB]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/zimmerman...ically-but-cmon

Zimmerman Found Not Guilty, Technically, But C’mon

NEWS • Race • News • ISSUE 49•29 • Jul 15, 2013

A jury of his peers finds George Zimmerman not guilty—legally speaking, that is—of second-degree murder.

SANFORD, FL—More than 16 months after he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in an altercation at a Florida condominium development, neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman was found, technically speaking, not guilty of murder Saturday, but c’mon.

Following two days of intense deliberations, a six-member jury determined that Zimmerman had, from a purely legal standpoint, not murdered Martin, a black teenager, in February 2012. According to jurors...

[borschtBomber BAR]

My bad I guess...figured since this was the 'politics' forum that calling politicians idiots, etc was ok but I guess not since I see my post was edited removing anything about the POTUS and his role in this fiasco.

@Morton...Martin wasn't on trial, because if he had then I am fairly certain his background and history would have been forefront in the trial. The thing was Martin by all accounts was innocent up and until he attacked Zimmerman. He could have easily run away from Zimmerman and ran home (believe he was only like 100 yards from where he was staying) but he didn't, instead he confronted GZ. Bad decisions were made on both accounts and it resulted in Martin's death.

I guess I don't understand what bravado you are claiming Zimmerman had in regards to the gun? He didn't draw on Martin until he was already being beaten so I don't really see the point there. We can play 'what if' all day long but it doesn't change what happened.

[Morton]

I didn't edit your posts Borscht.

This thread is going in circles, I'm out.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Morton 1st MRB

[borschtBomber BAR]

lol nevermind...I'm an idiot I was looking at the wrong post

I understand the fight or flight instinct, but I think that is more of an instant reaction where as Martin had a whole 4 minutes where he sort of disappeared and could easily have left.

[Arevicci]

According to Zimmerman's story he actually did not pursue Martin after being told not too, he was heading back to his street to wait for police when he was confronted by Martin, allegedly. We'll never know for sure, but I believe that was the case.

[Dawson 1st MRB]

George Zimmerman Wins Florida State Lottery