Kansas

[Mullaney]

I usually stay far away from this thread but I just cant let this one go and I would appreciate it if you guys were respectful in your responses.

Kansas passed a crazy bill to basically segregate gays....

I seriously... like... wow...

Any business having the right to fire or deny service to gay couples? Gay couples not allowed in public parks?

I mean sure - you love Jesus and you think homos are horrible fine...

But really? If I'm driving through Kansas with my wife and get into a car accident the fucking police and hospitals are just going to be like EH oh well they are gay while I fucking bleed to death?

Seriously so stupid.

[Wells 1st MRB]

There's no way this wouldn't go to the supreme court. That's the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. How is it possible that any tax payer paying for those services could be profiled and refused services under the assumption of their sexual preference? I wonder if this bill also allows atheists to be fired too? I really thought this was an early April Fools joke.

Gay people should pull together and sue the state. That's a Federal law that none can be discriminated against by sexual orientation.

[Kirkendall 1st MRB]

Keep in mind for a bill to be fully passed into law it needs to go through House, Senate, then be signed in by the governor. Remember your School House Rock. I'm just a Bill...

I digress, It has passed the House, and is headed to the state Senate. It is a ridiculous bill, and if it passes the Senate and gets signed in you can expect a plethora of lawsuits. Kansas Senate President, Susan Wagle ( R ) has spoken out against the bill, and you can expect her word to have a heavy hand in many of the House members' votes. I don't think it will get past the Senate personally, and I'll be very disappointed in Kansas if it does. Even more disappointed than I am now that their House of Representatives passed this bill.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Kirkendall 1st MRB

[Heresy 1st MRB]

I'm sure that these people who submitted and voted for this bill would jump up and say that they are proud Americans as they stomp all over the ideals of freedom that America stands for. Freedom does not mean the ability to take away those freedoms from others. Same old song and dance from race, gender, now sexual orientation. These should be easy lessons to learn. Makes me sick.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Heresy 1st MRB

[O'Gara 1st MRB]

First let me state that I believe that all people should be treated equally. I do not care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes. I am 100% in favor of same sex civil unions and equal protection under the law and employment. I believe in same sex civil unions but not Gay marriage. Sorry if that is not PC, marriage is defined by my religion and it is my right to practice my religious beliefs. I do however have a huge problem when ANY group wants to preach and teach to my minor children, especially about sex. It is my job to teach my children and to determine when my children are mature enough to understand complex sexual orientations and relationships. I pay a lot of money each and every year to have my kids schooled privately to maintain this right.

This article is fear mongering. If this bill passed tomorrow I absolutely doubt that gay couples would be left on the road to die or could not get a decent meal at Denny's (like a gay couple would be caught dead in Denny's, they would surely go to IHOP).

CNN has a good piece on the law http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/13/us/kansas-bi...rss_mostpopular

House Bill 2453 explicitly protects religious individuals, groups and businesses that refuse services to same-sex couples, particularly those looking to tie the knot.

They want to prevent religious individuals and organizations from getting sued, or otherwise punished, for not providing goods or services to gay couples -- or for not recognizing their marriages or committed relationship as valid. (This is in a State where gay marriage is not legal.)

What the law states:

HB 2453 is titled "An act concerning religious freedoms with respect to marriage" and covers many bases.

It reads, in part: "No individual or religious entity shall be required by any governmental entity to do any of the following, if it would be contrary to the sincerely held religious beliefs of the individual or religious entity regarding sex or gender:

"Provide any services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges; provide counseling, adoption, foster care and other social services; or provide employment or employment benefits, related to, or related to the celebration of, any marriage, domestic partnership, civil union or similar arrangement."

Anyone who turns away a gay couple not only can't face a civil suit, but if anyone tries to sue, they could get nailed with the other side's legal fees.

There are some small concession in the bill to gay couples.

If an employee at a nonreligious or government business refuses to serve a gay or lesbian couple for religious reasons, the manager is obligated to find another employee who will oblige.

It also explicitly says that the law does not authorize discrimination against anyone, including clergy, who performs or supports same-sex unions.

This law looks like it is protecting religious people and business from being sued for standing by their beliefs and refusing service, which is again their constitutional right (individuals and business owners). Furthermore, they are looking for protection from being sued for complying with the laws that are in place NOW in Kansas. I really do not think this is a law designed to allow for Statewide discrimination of Gay people. I believe any person has the right NOT to perform a task that is against what they fundamentally believe in. If they have a job that puts them in that situation, they need to get another job. If a waitress does not want to serve a gay couple due to religious reasons then that is her right, just like it is the right of the gay couple to be served. The waitress would be a little stupid because her job depends on happy customers. She would surely be inconsiderate of the couples feelings. There are no laws stating you have to be nice and pleasant and considerate. You can not trample one persons legal right for another persons legal right. The law specifically makes it an obligation of nonreligious or government businesses to make sure that service is provided.

Please don't quote and engage in a debate, I am not looking for it. I just wanted to post another side of the issue. Also, this is an informal post, that was typed while watching the Olympics. I don't care if it has some misspellings and grammar and usage issues. Grammar and usage police go away!

Thanks,

[Mullaney]

If you dont want to be quoted... maybe you shouldnt post...

I believe in same sex civil unions but not Gay marriage. Sorry if that is not PC, marriage is defined by my religion and it is my right to practice my religious beliefs.

You do have your right to practice your religious beliefs.... but that doesnt mean I effin have to practice them. Just because you dont believe I should be married to my wife doesnt mean that I shouldnt be allowed to. I dont believe that you should be allowed to tell me what to do based on YOUR religion - yet herein lies the problem.

I guess I just dont understand why it makes a difference to you whether or not I am married because as long as YOU arent married to a dude then you are practicing your religious beliefs. And thankfully, I live in a state where I am free and I AM married to a female and I am DAMN PROUD to have an awesome loving amazing wife.

I do however have a huge problem when ANY group wants to preach and teach to my minor children, especially about sex. It is my job to teach my children and to determine when my children are mature enough to understand complex sexual orientations and relationships. I pay a lot of money each and every year to have my kids schooled privately to maintain this right.

Let the intolerance and ignorance continue through the generations...

Im not saying that I think kids should be sat down and taught about sex or gay sex or anything like that (or even that being gay is ok if thats not what your religion teaches) but tolerance... that would be nice. Hiding things from a kid (or preaching against something) is what makes them act like ignorant fools later on in life.

Sorry if I am argumentative on this one O'Gara but this is directly related to my life and who I am as a person and it pisses me off when people try to tell me how I should live my life based on their beliefs....

The only thing I argue for is tolerance and freedom... I dont give two shits if you like gay people or believe in gay marriage... you have the right to be free and and have your opinions tolerated just as much as I do, I respect your religious beliefs, and I am not going to try and change your mind about them... just dont tell me how I should live my life based on them.

[O'Gara 1st MRB]

If you dont want to be quoted... maybe you shouldnt post...

I thought we were being respectful? Aside from being called out on something..I was just posting another side of it. Your entire response is about what is wrong about my beliefs and not one mention to the original post about the new law.

I believe in same sex civil unions but not Gay marriage. Sorry if that is not PC, marriage is defined by my religion and it is my right to practice my religious beliefs.

You do have your right to practice your religious beliefs.... but that doesnt mean I effin have to practice them. Just because you dont believe I should be married to my wife doesnt mean that I shouldnt be allowed to. I dont believe that you should be allowed to tell me what to do based on YOUR religion - yet herein lies the problem.

I never asked you to follow any of my beliefs. My beliefs are my own and have no bearing on you at all. I don't make the laws. Ultimately the voters of the State make the laws through their elected representatives. Also, I absolutely want you to be with anyone your want and who makes you happy. A civil union is the exact same thing as marriage, it is simply a different WORD. Before you mince words again, I believe same sex unions should have all of the protections as marriage. I will vote for legislation that gives civil unions all of the protections as married people get. Funny how you state I don't want you to be married

I guess I just dont understand why it makes a difference to you whether or not I am married because as long as YOU arent married to a dude then you are practicing your religious beliefs. And thankfully, I live in a state where I am free and I AM married to a female and I am DAMN PROUD to have an awesome loving amazing wife.

It matters to me because in my faith "marriage" is between a man and a woman. Changing that definition upsets a lot of people.

I do however have a huge problem when ANY group wants to preach and teach to my minor children, especially about sex. It is my job to teach my children and to determine when my children are mature enough to understand complex sexual orientations and relationships. I pay a lot of money each and every year to have my kids schooled privately to maintain this right.

Let the intolerance and ignorance continue through the generations...

You obviously don't know me or have not taken the time to read what I believe in. This is the most disturbing part of your post. You seem to want to make me the enemy when I am for 99.9% of what you want. If you had read what I believe in, in my post, you would know that i do not believe in intolerance or ignorance, nor would i teach it to my children. Keep on isolating those that support most of what you actually want and you will find yourself alone. It is interesting how you want your beliefs respected but somehow you’re going to shit on mine?

Im not saying that I think kids should be sat down and taught about sex or gay sex or anything like that (or even that being gay is ok if thats not what your religion teaches) but tolerance... that would be nice. Hiding things from a kid (or preaching against something) is what makes them act like ignorant fools later on in life.

Well that is not what the LGBT agenda thinks. And before you say you’re not speaking for LGBT, you post a link directly from their website. They have been trying to get Gay Scout Masters in the Boy Scouts & Cub Scouts for as long as I have been a member (over 8 years). They feel that teaching sex and gay sexual orientation to Cub Scouts is needed. We are talking about 6-10 year old kids that they feel need to be taught sexual orientation. This is overbearing and wrong. No one but parents should be having that conversation with their kids when they feel the kids are mature enough.

Sorry if I am argumentative on this one O'Gara but this is directly related to my life and who I am as a person and it pisses me off when people try to tell me how I should live my life based on their beliefs....

Well I don't think it is argumentative, I do think it is a little disrespectful for you to state that I am continuing the teaching of ignorance and intolerance towards my children. Again if you read what I believe in, you would see that ignorance and intolerance is not something I believe in. You and I see eye to eye on this point. I have had the sexual orientation talk with my son who is 14. I have explained to him that people are born gay and there is nothing wrong with that at all. As a soon to be Eagle Scout, he knows the importance of standing up for those that are bullied for any reason. He also knows that if one day he realizes that he is in fact gay, absolutely nothing will change in our family, period. I have lost a daughter. I will be dammed if I would ever lose my son or daughter to anything, especially biological sexual orientation! My beliefs are directly related to my life and it pisses me off when someone tries to tell me what I should think or do! It pisses me off even more when a movement has an agenda to intervene in my parenting. I am not saying you personally have pissed me off, you have not.

The only thing I argue for is tolerance and freedom... I dont give two shits if you like gay people or believe in gay marriage... you have the right to be free and and have your opinions tolerated just as much as I do, I respect your religious beliefs, and I am not going to try and change your mind about them... just dont tell me how I should live my life based on them.

Did you even read the first paragraph of my post? I believe in your right to be gay! In your right to be protected in your employment. In your right to settle down with your partner and have all of the rights that I have in marriage. You should have all of the rights and protections that any other person that is married. I just believe that when same sex people marry it be called a civil union and not marriage due to my religious beliefs.

If you want to make me out to be a dirt bag or intolerant person for wanting 99.9% of what you yourself want, then so be it.

That all being said, I have not taken anything here personally and I hope you do the same. It is always healthy to debate issues. We are not going to agree on everything.

[Mullaney]

All I can do is laugh, shake my head, and move along...

Continuing to post is not really worth it...

[Wells 1st MRB]

Topic Closed. This thread escalated into flaming instead of intelligent banter.