Kiev Protest

[Gearhart 1st MRB]

The video is NOT safe for work IMO.

I know nothing about this I have done little research on the issue..

Perhaps someone who knows more about it could fill me in more about the issue? I have been watching a few clips.

It looks like things are just getting out of control..

***Graphic Material In This Video!!! WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK***

Edited February 20, 2014 by Gearhart 1st MRB

[J. Anderson 1st MRB]

Its about some laws the Ukranians signed a while ago. You can follow it on Wikipedia. The group is called Euro-maidan and rallied alot of civilians to protest. Its a big thing in Europe and EU right now i think they are like having a crisis meeting in brussels right now.

Edited February 20, 2014 by J. Anderson 1st MRB

[Gearhart 1st MRB]

the video doesnt seem to be working for me at least..

this is a live feed from Ukraine

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...eaks-truce.html

[Wyatt]

From what I've heard (I haven't researched either), the Ukrainian government was taking steps to join the European Union - however, Russia offered Ukraine a deal in exchange for not joining the EU, at which point the government stopped talks with the EU. I'm guessing the Ukrainian people remember what things were like in the U.S.S.R and would rather side with Europe than deal with Russia.

I don't know if Ukraine has officially accepted the Russian offer yet. I'm not sure what the exact terms are, but I've heard it involves giving Ukraine two billion dollars and continued natural gas(?) trade in exchange for not joining the EU and becoming a satellite state of Russia. If they join the EU, all natural gas trade with Russia would stop.

As to who started the violence, I don't know that either. I would guess the government but that's just a feeling. It seems pretty clear in the video that the fighting is one-sided in favour of the government troops.

The UN/EU are considering sanctions on the Ukrainian government.

Again, this is just what I've heard, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Wyatt 1st MRB

[Kirkendall 1st MRB]

Independence Square, before and after.

Here's a basic timeline for the Ukrainian protests:

21 November 2013: Ukranian Government announces EU Association Agreement being abandoned, prompting major protests in Kiev. This agreement was abandoned in favor of gaining closer ties with Russia. A provision in this bill would've allowed previous prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko to leave the country. This was a big piece the EU wanted before doing business with Ukraine.

30 November: Police launch brutal raid on student protesters; TV images spur protests which grow during December. Vast crowds rallied on Kiev's Independence Square, defying a ban imposed a day earlier. Estimates of the numbers ranged from around 100,000 to more than 350,000.

17 December: Russian President Vladimir Putin offers economic lifeline to Ukraine, with $15bn of loans and cheaper gas supplies; protesters see it as Moscow buying off President Yanukovych. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych said they had not discussed Ukraine joining a Moscow-led customs union.

16 January 2014: Parliament passes anti-protest laws, which opponents call "draconian"; most of the laws later repealed. The changes include a ban on unauthorised tents in public areas and criminal responsibility for slandering government officials.

19-20 January: Intense clashes.

22 January: First protest deaths: two people die from gunshot wounds after clashes with police; body of an activist found in a forest days after his abduction.

23-24 January: Protesters seize government buildings in Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, and other western Ukrainian cities; protests also spread east.

28 January: Prime Minister Mykola Azarov and his government resign.

14-16 February: Under an amnesty deal, protesters vacate occupied government buildings, and charges against those arrested dropped.

18 February: Parliament speaker rejects debate on changing constitution; violent clashes erupt in Kiev, leaving many dead.

Summarized from a timeline on BBC, with a couple small additions.

[J. Anderson 1st MRB]

From what I've heard (I haven't researched either), the Ukrainian government was taking steps to join the European Union - however, Russia offered Ukraine a deal in exchange for not joining the EU, at which point the government stopped talks with the EU. I'm guessing the Ukrainian people remember what things were like in the U.S.S.R and would rather side with Europe than deal with Russia.

I don't know if Ukraine has officially accepted the Russian offer yet. I'm not sure what the exact terms are, but I've heard it involves giving Ukraine two billion dollars and continued natural gas(?) trade in exchange for not joining the EU and becoming a satellite state of Russia. If they join the EU, all natural gas trade with Russia would stop.

As to who started the violence, I don't know that either. I would guess the government but that's just a feeling. It seems pretty clear in the video that the fighting is one-sided in favour of the government troops.

The UN/EU are considering sanctions on the Ukrainian government.

Again, this is just what I've heard, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

That thing about 2 Billion is part of a lend that Ukraine did to Russia in december 2013. But they gave them a part of it now to like motivate the Government. But it seems like it failed.

[Armstrong 1st MRB]

I've been debating this on Yahoo for the last few days now and almost everyone on there seems to be of an opinion that these protestors are no good, are a radical minority, are Fascists, are being fueled by western spies, or are just a bunch of kids who have no idea what is best for Ukraine. I have a friend in Finland who has a friend in Crimean Ukraine whom he talks to regularly and from what he heard, the Ukrainian Government is calling their own people Fascists and were sending in Police to charge into Independence Square to break up peaceful protests of people standing in human chains singing the national anthem through lead bullets.

Everyone on Yahoo has criticized me and what I heard as stupid or that I'm supporting the same people who supported Hitler and the Nazis and I hate it. I'm not willing to believe that the Ukrainian people forgot so soon how things were under the USSR and being starved to death that everyone would suddenly jump at the chance to getting closer with the Russians again though.

Either way, glad to see a decent timeline of things though.

[Mullaney]

That is an intense image...

[O'Gara 1st MRB]

Questions:

Are they protesters or Govt forces?

Are they being shot at? If they are being shot at they are idiots because they do not scatter and get to cover, they are maintaining behind the riot shields.

Who the hell is shooting at them and how the hell are they not mowing them down? They are completely in the open.

[Armstrong 1st MRB]

The picture is probably even more out of date since that tent city on the right side is probably nothing but ash by now, still its quite striking.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Armstrong 1st MRB

[J. Anderson 1st MRB]

Questions:

Are they protesters or Govt forces?

Are they being shot at? If they are being shot at they are idiots because they do not scatter and get to cover, they are maintaining behind the riot shields.

Who the hell is shooting at them and how the hell are they not mowing them down? They are completely in the open.

Those are protestors.

Because i think the tried to get some of their wounded Co-protestors.

The government troops Police officers/berkut soldiers are shooting them from a behind a barricade further ahead that isnt seen and from roof tops.

[Heresy 1st MRB]

I think this sums it up about what the people think of their government.

[K. Lloyd]

When the Government starts firing upon it's own people the international community should do more than stand idly by and watch the violence unfold... Civil Wars have started over less:(

[Ultranator BAR]

I've been debating this on Yahoo for the last few days now and almost everyone on there seems to be of an opinion that these protestors are no good, are a radical minority, are Fascists, are being fueled by western spies, or are just a bunch of kids who have no idea what is best for Ukraine. I have a friend in Finland who has a friend in Crimean Ukraine whom he talks to regularly and from what he heard, the Ukrainian Government is calling their own people Fascists and were sending in Police to charge into Independence Square to break up peaceful protests of people standing in human chains singing the national anthem through lead bullets.

Everyone on Yahoo has criticized me and what I heard as stupid or that I'm supporting the same people who supported Hitler and the Nazis and I hate it. I'm not willing to believe that the Ukrainian people forgot so soon how things were under the USSR and being starved to death that everyone would suddenly jump at the chance to getting closer with the Russians again though.

Either way, glad to see a decent timeline of things though.

I was listening to NPR on the way home today, and they said that the Ukrainian government is telling us that the protesters are National Socialists (Natzis) to get the west to associate them with the Natzis and everything the holocaust did. At the same time they are telling the Ukrainian police that they are being supported by Jews in order to get them to fight them or something. It's all propaganda.

[Wyatt]

I was listening to NPR on the way home today, and they said that the Ukrainian government is telling us that the protesters are National Socialists (Natzis) to get the west to associate them with the Natzis and everything the holocaust did. At the same time they are telling the Ukrainian police that they are being supported by Jews in order to get them to fight them or something. It's all propaganda.

Well, it may be true that some of the protesters are Nazis - doesn't change the fact that the Ukrainian president has become the dictator of a police state.

I'm not one to underestimate stupidity when it comes to political views, but I'm surprised so many condemn the protesters. Where is this pro-Russia, pro-dictator, anti-west stuff coming from?

Edited February 22, 2014 by Wyatt 1st MRB

[Armstrong 1st MRB]

I was listening to NPR on the way home today, and they said that the Ukrainian government is telling us that the protesters are National Socialists (Natzis) to get the west to associate them with the Natzis and everything the holocaust did. At the same time they are telling the Ukrainian police that they are being supported by Jews in order to get them to fight them or something. It's all propaganda.

Well, it may be true that some of the protesters are Nazis - doesn't change the fact that the Ukrainian president has become the dictator of a police state.

I'm not one to underestimate stupidity when it comes to political views, but I'm surprised so many condemn the protesters. Where is this pro-Russia, pro-dictator, anti-west stuff coming from?

I believe they're just trying to find an excuse for it other than themselves that will be easy to believe for those who don't have direct access to information. Its much easier to blame the U.S.A. or "The West" is behind some devious anti-government plot right on Russia's border (despite the fact that the cold war has been over and done for decades) because you don't really need to prove it, its almost a type of reverse onus or even Catch 22. As in, if the U.S. makes no comment, they look guilty, but if they do make a comment, then they drag themselves into this and look bad automatically to those who don't want to see Americans anywhere near this.

But no, its too easy to say that the Ukrainian people are fed up with the current President's decisions to get closer to Russia and attempts to write a bunch of anti-protest laws.

Also, I've been finding that it is a recent trend that I've noticed (at least on Yahoo) that in any sort of event like this, whoever the "rebel" side is, always draws the short straw in terms of support. Everyone calls protestors or rebels "Terrorists", "Extremists", or some sort of political standing that people have been brainwashed into thinking is inherently evil for some reason (ie. Socialist, Communist, etc.). No doubt there are some such people who want to see their own agendas pushed through in every revolution or civil war, but that doesn't mean that people can make carpet bombing statements about them like some people do.

[J. Anderson 1st MRB]

It would seem like the protest just ended last night. The Ukranian president fled the capital and the protestors goals were met.

[A. Cannon 1st MRB]

[K. Lloyd]

Putin has already made his position clear so I doubt this is over, I see another Georgia situation erupting if the Ukraine divides as he doesn't recognise the puppet western government that has taken over in the interim.

[Gearhart 1st MRB]

[K. Lloyd]

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Hvds2AIiWLA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

shared.

[Gearhart 1st MRB]

CONTENT WARNING!! GRAPHIC MATERIAL

[A. Cannon 1st MRB]

Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine

Ukraine crisis: UN Security Council to hold urgent meeting

Russian government only wants to go take control of the pro-Russian regions in Ukraine. Personally the international community should take this as an invasion of a foreign country.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Cannon 1st MRB