Health Care

[Belding 1st MRB]

Welp. I gotta get in here on this top because, for one I can talk about the severe downfalls of government run health care from the the canadian perspective as it has ruined my dad's life. Keep in mind that I KNOW that this bill is not giving us canadian healthcare in any way. I'm just trying to make a point before too much praise is given to the canadian system.

He has always had a mysterious nerve disorder causing him to lose feeling in his joints, but only after they have extreme pain. When he lived in america, we paid for health insurance through the office supply company he worked for. Yea it sucks cuz it costs too much, BUT he got all of the best treatment and surgery whenever he needed it. This was awesome for him because it kept him mobile. However, as soon as he got to canada, things started to go downhill. He began getting treatment refused. They started just pumping him full of steroids and pain killers. They told him that they couldn't give him the knee surgery he NEEDED until he was 50 when he was 46. He finally turns 50, after trip after trip to the doctors who are willing to do nothing but prescribe. He asks for the treatment, sees a specialist, and they say "We're sorry, but the damage to your knees is too far along for the surgery to work. Here are some knee braces until you need a wheel chair. GOOD LUCK!" After that, he had to go on disability at work and can't work anymore at all. He is only 50 years old and his life is only going to get worse and worse until his legs are completely useless. In a system where everyone is forced to pay for healthcare (it comes out of taxes there, and it is NOT cheap). Health care becomes overburdened and the quality will inevitably go down. In america we pay tons for health insurance because we will get ANY TREATMENT WE NEED.

Ok so that's that. Here is my problem with this reform. Besides the fact that it had to be passed using the reconciliation power where it's literally saying..."This bill is too hard to pass...instead of making it better, lets just make it need less votes." I see way too much politicizing going into the decision of what my health care will be like. There is no reason that this reform has to be so sweeping right away. If the best interest of the american population was truly priority, this problem (yes I admit there are A LOT of problems with US healthcare and I DO WANT reform, but not this.) then what the government would do is tackle this ONE problem at a time. First, we need to work on the bloated government run healthcare we already have. Medicare and medicaid currently are costing more and more and it's because the government has lost control and have begun to allow too much for too little. The poor of this country have better healthcare then me and the rest of middle class family and they pay an insane amount less. So first I think we need to cut back on the benifits that they receive like surgery for weight loss and whatnot.

As for the healthcare I have. It's too expensive because it is constantly being sued and sued and sued. I have talked to people in canada and they come to america and all they see during daytime tv is lawyers talking about "Hurt at work? Hurt in a car? Hurt on somebody elses property? Medical malpractice? Did you take this pill and have bad side effects? Bad treatment in a nursing home?" Now ok, if something has gone wrong, it is your privlidge, but not right to sue. Keeping that in mind, the first thing I would change to drive down healthcare costs is making it illegal to sue on prospect involving medical cases. For those who don't know what that is, it's when a lawyer or "ambulance chaser" will take your case for no charge and then simply take out from the money that you win. With people thinking that if anything goes wrong, the first thing is to sue, the cost of insurance for the company you buy from skyrockets. Make the insurance company pay less for their lawyers, and you'll pay less for your care. A lot less. Other countries have done this and it works.

Also I am sick of people saying that healthcare is the RIGHT of every american. When did this happen? Yes, you have the right to life. That does not mean you have the right to every possible, unnecessary treatment for your flu that you just don't want to man up and deal with on your own. People who are willing to pay more for health care get better treatment. You want to stay with your friends in a villa at the nicest hotel in the city and have people serve you hand and foot, you pay more. You want car insurance so good that they drop off a new BMW every time you get in a little fender bender, you pay more. America is driven by money, and hard work will get you more money, more benefits, and a better life. Are some people spoiled and rich without hard work? Yes, but that is life. It is unfair. Always has been, always will be. I don't want to pay out of MY taxes because there are a ton of people spending their welfare checks on carton after carton of smokes and OUT OF NOWHERE, they need tons of treatment! I'm already paying into more than I get out and social security will still most likely go bankrupt before I see it. I want the money I make to go to my insurance and only to my insurance.

I know Im not great at getting what I want to say across so here...

tl;dr

-Stop fucking suing because the doctor tried his best and it wasn't good enough. Instead, tell everyone he's bad and find a better one without driving up the cost of my coverage.

-Healthcare is not a right. It's not in the constitution, and it sure as hell doesn't say I will be FINED if I DON'T buy insurance anywhere in that wonderful document. I sure as hell don't need feds telling me what to buy. If the state wants to fine, but that gives me a choice of where I want to live without leaving the country.

-Canadian health care is convenient until you have a disabling condition that they can't afford to treat because too many other people need it.

kthnx

[Vogt]

As much as I don't want free health care and insurance. (Being a person who doesn't have either.) The only thing I care about is:

The Second Amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As long as we have that, our government can't really do too crazy of things, with it we are able to keep our government in check. Also this very amendment is one of few things that makes American Conservatives different from Canadian Conservatives. If I do recall I could be wrong, but seeing as the Canadian Conservatives were the ones who slapped on the stricter Gun Control laws. This is why we can say that the Canadian Conservatives are more Liberal than the American Conservatives, seeing as American Liberals are the ones who also want stricter Gun Control laws and overall like Canadian laws. So the way I see it, is if a Liberal likes a lot of what you do, you're a Liberal in their eye's. Even though your title may be Conservative. I think that is the point that was trying to be made.

Now I do know that this could have already been sorted out, but once I started to scroll down and started seeing short novels... I lost interest. This is also just an example of what G Money meant by more Liberal.

[Parker 1st MRB]

Why the fuck are you talking about Gun laws? the topic says Health Care. Why are you comparing two different governmental parties? WTF are you talking about Vogt? Wrong topic. And no the Canadian conservative party is not like the American Liberal party, why I'm even here having to explain this to people is beyond me. The fucking topic says Health Care, not gun laws, not government parties, not Canada sucks because. IT SAYS HEALTH CARE!

Stop writing stupid ignorant shit.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

-Canadian health care is convenient until you have a disabling condition that they can't afford to treat because too many other people need it.

I call bullshit. I have already outlined the reasons why this is not the case and I will not repeat them.

Vogt, if the states choose to secede from the national government than that is the decision of each state individually. I don't understand what the State Militia has to do with it. It is a ridiculous notion to even begin to compare the two different governments and there parties as they operate in totally different spheres.

One final thing for all those who believe you should secede from the national government, courtesy of Benjamin Franklin:

[GMoney BAR]

OMG people why the fuck do we continue to relate the American healthcare system to the Canadian? The Canadians have their own laws with pros and cons. The Americans have their own laws with pros and cons. The topic is American healthcare. STICK TO IT! No guns, no second amendment, no stories about how treatment wasn't good in Canada then came to the U.S. and got good treatment. No stories about how treatment wasn't good enough in the U.S. and went to Canada and got better treatment. Please people, if you don't have statistics, numbers, facts, or legitimate debatable information to share, then don't post here.

I'm so sick and tired of Americans saying this and that about serious topics at hand when they have no idea what they're talking about. All they hear are stories and then they base their whole belief system off of a short sound-byte that is biased one way or the other. Go out there, find your own information from both sides then decide and discuss. No more of this off topic stupid shit.

[Belding 1st MRB]

Short and sweet then. My main concern is that I think the government should be more responsible with driving down the cost of the health care they already run before they get involved in the private business.

[GMoney BAR]

This is pretty much for any conservative on here.

This was just released though. Be careful though, it's a foresight into the future of the new doctors the United States will have under the healthcare bill.

[Ray 1st MRB]

okay so i have no idea what that last one was about, i can't tell if it was offensive or just stupid so i am just going to not comment.

I believe the notion of federally supported health insurance is a solid notion and has proved effective in many countries all over the world. That being said the plans put forward by the current administration and the changes forced by congress are not in the best interest of nearly anyone. It was a crappy piece of legislation picked apart by congress then put back together over and over again as quickly as possible, until we ended up with the frankenstein monster we have now. Frankly i don't think America can ever come up with a decent public healthcare plan.

I think the reason that we can't is because most americans, simply put, don't want to pay their own money to help other people with their medical bills, and that is the entire concept of public healthcare. I would personally gladly pay higher taxes to give me and other people safety and satisfaction of paid medical care but most of America wouldn't. That isn't necessarily bad or evil but it is the way it is. Until that changes I don't think that we will ever come up with a system that works for a majority of America. And that any healthcare bills that get passed or put forward will not work on an incredibly basic level because they are inherently against core American values.

Values that though i don't share, i respect because it is my fucking country and i love it.

[GMoney BAR]

yeah the last post is just a joke. I thought it was funny when I saw it.

[Ray 1st MRB]

fair enough, i don't get political jokes

[St-Denis]

Nah Health Care is free in Canada Gvt. Already Pay's.

[Whitebeard]

"Yes or No" makes it really tricky to pick. I'm totally down for free health-care. The problem is that it isn't free and I'll end up making it free for some fat-lazy-douche, so I voted I don't want it. I'm a huge capitalist and I don't want people to leech. I usually vote for things that boggle down to having a smaller government. The bigger the government, the more it spends, and the more it taxes me or makes me pay for stupid stuff I don't need/want.

-Whitebeard

[Ford 1st MRB]

I haven't read any of the posts in this topic. I don't plan on it either.

I have no facts, no data, no numbers to throw at you.

I don't really care what happens. We vote to put these people in office to look out for the well being of our nation and our citizens. That never happens. Doesn't matter who you vote for or who you don't vote for. Nothing ever changes, you never get what you want. Why bitch? It doesn't solve anything.

We can sit here and go back and forth all day long about should we or shouldn't we go to a nationalized health care plan, but the fact of the matter is.... none of us can control the outcome. You can tell me voting is a way to control the outcome and I'll tell you you can kiss my ass. See my previous paragraph.

If we get government run healthcare, half the country will be happy, the other half won't. If we don't get it, half the country will bitch, the other half won't. It's the same way whether the topic of discussion is: War, Gun control, healthcare, etc...

Do I want it?

No.

Will I pay for it.

Yes.

Will I be happy about it?

No.

Pointless debates showing facts, numbers, political opinions are just that, pointless.

The problem with the American people is they are probably the most gullible, easily persuaded, spoon fed people on the planet. "Well I saw it on Fox News so it must be true." Glen Beck said it so I feel the same way." "CNN reported it and they wouldn't lie to me." Fucking sheep.

I have no valid points to add to this argument, nor do I care. I just know that I will keep doing exactly as I always have. I won't watch any corporate syndicated news network. I will continue to work, because Obama didn't take care of me like he said he would. (joke obviously) I will continue to pay my taxes like a good american. I will continue to vote for the candidate of my choosing, not the democrat because he is who I should vote for, or the Republican because he is who I should vote for. I never have followed political guidelines and I never will.

Not voting outside of your party of choice, simply because it's not your party of choice is the single largest thing wrong with this country.

Well that and herpes, which probably won't be treated by the new system.

[GMoney BAR]

Not voting outside of your party of choice, simply because it's not your party of choice is the single largest thing wrong with this country.

OMG I hate that. I understand sticking to peoples parties but when people revenge vote or vote with hope it irritates me. IMO people should be voting for whatever candidate is most like them. I've voted outside my party before. Big deal ya know? Just vote for people that are closest to how you want things to be then that's it. It's simple.