Well the cat is out of the box now...

[Vogt]

Listen closely, pay attention... And I guarantee you will shit bricks.

[J. Clark]

haha hes home country and that means he cant be president because you have to be american born am i right?

[Jasko]

haha hes home country and that means he cant be president because you have to be american born am i right?

u are actually very wrong, his mom is a natural born citizen making him a natural born citizen.

[J. Clark]

all right

[GMoney BAR]

It actually depends on where he himself was born. If his mom is American and his dad is Kenyan and he is born in the 50 United States and not a province such as Puerto Rico then he can be President. If his mom is American and his dad is Kenyan and he was born outside of the 50 United States then he cannot be President. Nobody has been able to turn up a birth certificate yet of my knowledge. There has been rumors of one from Hawaii but hasn't been exposed. So with my knowledge it's still unknown as to where he was born.

[Jasko]

anyways, he was birthed in Hawaii so....

[Collazo 1st MRB]

Proof?

[Hatfield]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

You can see pictures of it on the left, click the link.

Also, old news is old. Here's proof he's a US citizen, where is your proof that he's not?

[Zachow 1st MRB]

Digitally scanned means nothing you can alter them on it the DMV won't even take the copies. As for the people that verified it they could be biased but even if he was born here doesn't change the fact he is a horrible leader.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

Digitally scanned means nothing you can alter them on it the DMV won't even take the copies. As for the people that verified it they could be biased but even if he was born here doesn't change the fact he is a horrible leader.

That is not the topic of this thread. I would imagine that his birth certificate is legitimate you can't bias a raised seal.

[Vogt]

I'm sorry, but I think the website that was given is sketchy as hell. Seeing as that it doesn't have a .gov extension in its web address. Nice try though.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

I'm sorry, but I think the website that was given is sketchy as hell. Seeing as that it doesn't have a .gov extension in its web address. Nice try though.

It doesn't have to have a .gov extension to be considered 'not sketchy.' How about giving this a read first.

And do you have a .gov website that claims that he doesn't have a legitimate birth certificate?

All that the publicity experts want to ensure is that no one can say that he is from Niger, Somalia, Uganda, Rwanda, the Congo or any other war torn nation in Africa.

[GMoney BAR]

I don't know about the website itself. Why would someone put the presidents actual birth certificate on the web to give information to identity theft of the most powerful man in the world. As for the validity of the document itself, I don't know. I'm not a forensic analyst to decide that. I'm sure if it went under evaluation by a document forensic analyst then the truth would be told.

I don't know why people feel that we have to prove that he isn't an American born citizen. How can one prove something that may not be there when in fact the running candidate has to ensure that all the paper work, including birth certificate, is in place for him/her to be running for president. With that said, I highly doubt the Obama campaign missed this little necessity and with that said I don't trust anyone on capital hill. Most of them are corrupt and I don't put anything past any of them at all. Not even his campaign workers.

Don't believe me? Look at Hillary's campaign workers and speech writers and how she "was under sniper fire and combat actions while in Bosnia." People need to realize to take everything from anyone with a grain of salt anymore unless there are hard distinctive facts supporting the argument.

With the certificate, right now it looks legitimate, but I don't trust the website because why would the government publicly post something that is that sensitive of a material to be available to all people in the world. Just look at the website Gooderham posted and it's descriptions of the people that worked there. If you scroll down, why is there such a high turn around rate for its employees? In other words, why do a lot of people come and work for the "non-profit" organization and then leave relatively quickly? It doesn't make sense to me.

Edited April 7, 2010 by GMoney ßÄR

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

My link was the "About" page for the website posted earlier.

[Hatfield]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof

This is why YOU have to prove he's not. Whether you accept the sources or not (Which is something I'll discuss in a minute) the Obama administration and the Obama family have provided proof again, and again that Obama was born on Hawaii.

Following the Burden of proof, to prove that wrong in ANY way, YOU have to provide proof he wasn't. If you can't, (and I know you can't) all you have are baseless, unfounded accusations. Obama wins that argument.

And when it comes to sources, if you actually READ that article instead of just looking at the pretty pictures, or if you had looked this up or read about it online, you would know that Obama has made his birth certificate public on two occasions, online where anybody could view it, and it's been inspected by several domestic forensic investigators (including the one on Fact-Check) and determined to be real. When it comes to Fact-Check, as gooder posted, the link he put up was the about page to Fact-Check itself. I have no clue what your talking about in regards to your last post, almost all of the major staff of Fact-Check has worked there since the early 90's, and that organization has been used many times for things similar to that.

Also, if you want to make a point that it isn't a .gov domain (because it's not a government organization) well, I can make this point:

Where is the .gov domain website that says Obama's certificate is fake or doesn't exist?

EDIT: OH and about his personal information. There isn't anything on that document that isn't a matter of public record as the man is the president. So it doesn't show anything sensitive.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Hatfield

[GMoney BAR]

If you're going to bring "cited" sources into the topic of discussion, of all things don't ever bring in wiki. Any educator or researcher knows that is an invalid source because anyone can add anything to it. Since it's the Burden on Proof though we all know what that means to an extent but there are so many different legal definitions of burden of proof out there. There are definitions of it in criminal, civil, appeals, and supreme courts. Each has its own definition.

The Obama family has in fact not ever released his birth certificate. I read the article that you posted before and it was the Obama campaign that produced this document by "getting a copy and then sealed with a risen print." With such a corrupt government I don't trust anyone up there. In order for me to believe a birth certificate I would need to see the original dated back to his birth date with decades of empirical evidence of wear and tear on the document.

It is not up to the people to prove that he not US born. Since he is applying for the job of the most powerful man in the world it is his job to provide the Burden of Proof of original documentation of his birth certificate. It's the exact same thing as applying for a job elsewhere. You have to provide the employer, in this case the employer is the American people, with the proper documentation. If you think it's the other way around and we have to prove he's wrong then go talk to a recruiter for the government and you'll find that they require all original documents unless the originals were destroyed in something out of your control: such as a fire or flooding. Obama's case is not it since his "copy" was provided in 2007.

So once again get me, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, or any other major news agency the proof of an original and I'll shut up and accept that he's a US born citizen. Until then, what is the case that Obama supporters have to back him up and this possible fake document? Get the one piece of empirical evidence that will shut up 60% of the nation on whether he's a US citizen or not: the ORIGINAL.

[Kirkendall 1st MRB]

This whole argument is retarded. I was making a post to shut you guys up, then I realized the futility of arguing with birthers. You're no better than truthers.

No one in the government has argued this point since Obama was elected. If this argument had any legitimacy someone would still be pushing the issue. But I forgot, you don't trust the government up there. And you want a government document to prove your mistrust was well-placed.

[Englebretson 1st MRB]

well said kirk

[Morton]

I know this is a couple of weeks later. But what grinds my gears is that its claimed that the leader of the United State homeland is Kenya. The man is supposed to be the REPRESENTATIVE of the UNITED STATES and his wife claims his homeland isn't even the US. That's just making me mad.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

I know this is a couple of weeks later. But what grinds my gears is that its claimed that the leader of the United State homeland is Kenya. The man is supposed to be the REPRESENTATIVE of the UNITED STATES and his wife claims his homeland isn't even the US. That's just making me mad.

Well, if you are an American technically your homeland is NOT the USofA but more likely somewhere in the United Kingdom, or Europe. Besides, he is not acting on behalf of Kenya, so whats the problem?

I completely agree with Kirk, this whole argument is ridiculous.

[J. Clark]

i like turtles

[Mendels]

FactCheck is extremely reputable. It isn't just a random website, I've referenced them numerous times throughout my college times already.

As for this thread, if you hate Obama, so be it. Please though, pick a real reason. I'll be the first to admit I'm left leaning (though I am an independent), but it isn't about your side, it's about making educated decisions. Hate Obama for his policies, laws, lobbying etc. Same should've gone for Bush, don't dislike him for saying words wrong, etc, dislike him for things that he did. That's another, effects do not indicate the correct cause necessarily. The problems of the current economy are not Obama's, and arguably, not fully Bush's. I'm sick of seeing what politics has become for the people, judging on haircuts and voice. We have horrible politicians because we've let our standards slip.

I'm glad to see the Tea Party simply for the fact that people are actually involving themselves in matters political, actively. I turned 18 in April of 2008, and that summer I spent working for the Nader campaign. People still mock me, but I learned the real issues in that race, not just "Change" or "Maverick" or "Hope" or "Hockey mom..." We do have term limits, and the President gets to make appointments, our only level of freedom is picking the right man/woman for each job.

I'm from Nebraska where Chuck Hagel voted against his party an insane amount. People hated him, and yet he won twice in a row by enormous margins. Probably because people didn't pay attention to his ideas, probably only to the fact he was the pro-life candidate.