Vax Mandates

[S. Johnson 2]

This is not intended to be inflamatory.

 

Do you support a vaccine mandate on the State or Federal Level, regardless of whether you have gotten at least one jab or none at all?

 

Personally, I do not support it. I am not vaxed and the reason for it being that it is political. If the state or feds are going to mandate it, they can shove it where the sun don't shine. If they would stop politicizing the issue and revoke the mandates, I would be more apt to get the jab.

[Landgren]

Outside the US, I don't care as other countries aren't my concern. However in the US you have a right to choose. So no, I do not support vaccine mandates. Once the government starts testing the waters with the removal of personal rights, it only get's worse from there. Most of the games we play together are set in WWII. Need I remind everyone exactly what Hitler and Stalin did after forcibly taking over the governments? First thing they did was promise their people that the government would take care of them and keep them safe. They also forcibly took all firearms from their citizens. It just snowballed from there. Oftentimes, if the government says "Trust me, it's for your own good" or "Trust me, it's for the safety of the community" they have NO good intentions for the future. 

[Guest Flores 1st MRB]

I dont´t understand the point ... "I do not get vaccinated because it is a political issue", but if you get covid and die, does it stop being a political issue? In which part of the scale do you put your healt, your family members and the people around you? It's a world health issue, too selfish.

 

18 hours ago, S. Johnson 1st MRB said:

This is not intended to be inflamatory.

 

Do you support a vaccine mandate on the State or Federal Level, regardless of whether you have gotten at least one jab or none at all?

 

Personally, I do not support it. I am not vaxed and the reason for it being that it is political. If the state or feds are going to mandate it, they can shove it where the sun don't shine. If they would stop politicizing the issue and revoke the mandates, I would be more apt to get the jab.

 

[Weil 1st MRB]

I do get both points, you feel like you're getting your freedom taken from you when you get forced to do something, It's understandable when people don't want to be poked and have a substance in their bodies that they're not 100% sure about, science can't tell for sure whether or not the vax will have any complications in the future, sadly.

 

There's data that says that people with the vaccine do have lessened symptoms if they get do get the disease, but the vaccine does nothing to stop the spread, so again, I do believe when you have all of these facts in the table it should be up to you wheter you want to do it or not.

 

On a personal level, I'm very good friends with a doctor who graduated literally on the start of the pandemic, and this generation of doctors (at least here in my country, idk over there) have had the tendency to become experts in the COVID area because it's a very serious issue in Venezuela, it's really the go to if you want to get bot experience and good money as a Doc, this friend of mine literally goes from house to house (he does home hospitalization to his patients because the expenses are cut in about 80% compared to clinics and hospitals, which not only are already way beyond capacity, but also you have more risks of getting contaminated in those places :l) from the moment he wakes up early in the morning until he goes back to his house late at night, he has seen that the vaccine really hasn't done anything different from when things started, yet again, we have access to the chinese and russian ones, which are suposedly good according to data, but they are not the fancy ones you guys have .

 

To summarize it all, I do understand why you wouldn't want to get vaccinated, and I do believe it should always be your choice to do so, but this disease is way too strange and we really don't know enough about it as of now, and if getting a vaccine can help make it easier to pull through it if you do get it, then I'd say go for it.

[S. Johnson 2]

51 minutes ago, Flores 1st MRB said:

I dont´t understand the point ... "I do not get vaccinated because it is a political issue", but if you get covid and die, does it stop being a political issue? In which part of the scale do you put your healt, your family members and the people around you? It's a world health issue, too selfish.

 

 

If I get covid and die, then so be it. I know where I am going when I die and I am looking forward to that, whenever it may happen. There's other things in this world that can kill you sooner, quicker or prolonged than covid even if you do everything you can to protect yourself.

 

I am just saying that for a tier of government to say that you must have the vax and in some cases even show proof of a neg test within the last 72 hours to be able to eat indoors at a restaurant for example, is going to the extreme and getting into government overreach. If the business wants to do that... fine.

[Samuels 1st MRB]

Oh boy, I was always curious how long this topic would take before it was brought up in this section of the forums.  Here's my 2 cents and I'll try to not make it a wall of text.  And I want to say up front, that there is 100% an exception to my thoughts for people who have legitimate medical reasons and are not able to receive the vaccine. 

 

I can understand the apprehension that some people may feel about the jab for a variety of reasons.  I myself was someone who was initially unsure of it given my thoughts about how quickly it was developed.  I did eventually get the shot and I was the last person in my family to do so for that reason (also because I did not qualify to receive it until ~May of this year).  And I did so for 2 reasons.  (1) I have alot of high risk people in my family, some of whom have passed away last month (non-COVID related) and (2) I believe the slight risks of the vaccine outweigh the possibility of the continued vaccine.

 

Generally, and this may sound harsh, I think those who reject getting the vaccine for non-medical complication reasons are selfish.  This has not been the first time in human history where vaccinations to combat diseases have happened and it is not the first time where foolish people fight what is later shown in history and hindsight as being common sense (i.e. spanish flu, measles, rubella, mumps, polio, need I go on?).  

 

This concept and has essentially been around since the start of the 20th century.  I won't go into the Spanish Flu because thats the most commonly cited one that is compared to COVID and the idiocy of refusing to comply with government instructions.  There are multiple vaccines that have been required and heavily recommended by the government to do various things (i.e., go to public school, serve in the military, etc).    To just enroll in elementary through primary school (K-12) almost all states mandate that children receive the Hepatitis B and Meningococcal ACWY shots  as well as some others.  Moving onto colleges/universities, many have their own required vaccines as people mix with other people from around the world.  

 

There is also this false equivalency that businesses refusing service to people who refuse to wear masks/show vaccine proof/etc. are being discriminated against.  Well, this is both a true statement from a legal perspective but mainly wrong.  Discrimination is generally defined as treating two groups of people differently.  Yes, here we do have 2 groups receiving unequal treatment (mask wearers/vaccinates and non-mask wearers/non-vaccinated).   What is the unequal treatment that is occurring? Being able to eat at a restaurant, hold certain employment, go into certain public/privately owned buildings.   Now, I will go easy on the legalese here and try to simplify the reasoning for why these arguments are nothing more than people bitching and moaning.  For anything other than (race, religion, nat'l origin) any unequal treatment of 2 groups of people must be rationally related to a legitimate government interest.   And that is the key thing here.  The safety, health, and wellbeing of US citizens, in the government's interest of protecting its citizenry, outweighs Karen's interest in going into Starbucks without a mask.

 

The test that is generally used for this consideration is whether the purpose of the laws/rules/government action (i.e, the vaccine mandate) is related to the purpose and reason that the government believes it serves (i.e., protecting the population from COVID, killing the virus, etc.).  Because the legal test is the lowest bar to meet under the 14th Amendment, all the arguments you see online about unfair and discrimination against non-vaccinated people/non-mask wearers is just people blowing hot air.

 

Now on to my personal thoughts.

 

Personally, I believe going into private businesses, working where you choose, and all things generally enjoyed in society are the privileges that we get from being a part of the society.  And privileges can be revoked as easily as they are given.  Now, don't get me wrong, I believe that there are 100% certain rights that cannot be taken away from people (right to choose, free speech, free assembly, religion, etc), and I'll get to that point in a moment.

 

Now, generally, a private business can refuse service to anyone it chooses so long as it is not based on a protected class (race, religion, sex, national origin).  Non-Vaccinated/Non-mask wearers, do not fall in this category, even if they are in one of those protected groups, because they are not being refused service/entry for those reasons, they are refused service/entry for the vaccine/masks.  Thats what is important, the refusal to allow entry or restrict entry to a private place due to not wearing a mask/vaccine proof is no different from a restaurant or business saying "No shirt, no shoes, no service."  

 

Now, I know this post is a wall of text but I want to just comment on the "my body my choice" argument that has been floating around.  This is another false equivalency and strawman argument partially designed to jab at the abortion rights crowd.  Now, I am 100% behind a woman's right to choose with respect to abortion.  I'm 100% in favor of people's right to choose what they do with their own bodies.  

• You want to overeat and ballon to 500lbs, it's you right to do so
• Want to drink booze every single day and destroy your liver, its your right to do so
• Want to smoke 10 packs of cigarrettes and destroy your lungs? It's your right to do so

Now, this is again where controversy lies.  Is your right to bodily autonomy more important than my right, or anyone else's right to continue living (lets not get into the abortion argument here, not the point of that statement).  I would argue your right to be an idiot is not more important than the right of everyone else to not catch this disease.  And this is where I think that businesses, the government, and citizens, are 100% correct in shaming and pushing out those who refuse to comply with the basic things to participate in a society.  

 

Herd immunity is a proven thing and has helped destroy a lot of diseases, but they are slowly coming back with the anti-vax movement, etc.  With COVID, yes, there are many other diseases and things that kill more people, but the conversation is not on those other topics, its on this one disease which has consumed the world in less than 2 years and changed or affected almost every person's life in some way.

 

This is where I think, people's right to be stupid ends.  You get the jab, and participate in the society that you want to be apart of, or the society will push you out so those who do participate in it can continue to be safe and prosper. 

 

Rant over <3

[Wright 1st MRB]

I say this as someone who is pretty liberal (by American standards) and who is vaccinated with the initial and the booster. If a private business whishes to enforce a vaccination requirement, I'm fine with it. Even if it’s for a good cause, giving the government the authority to forcibly inject you with you something really bothers me. That’s some serious totalitarian shit.

 

Yes, it's a harmless vaccine that saves lives this time, but if we give the government that precedent, a more nefarious administration could fabricate an emergency in the future and use it as an excuse to force the population to take something less life-saving and more questionable. Nightmare scenario would be like the movie “Equilibrium.” Or a forced sterilizations of “undesirable” populations.

 

I fully support businesses telling people to get vaxxed or get out. But if the government can say “take this shot or else we’ll [insert punishment here],” then you can’t really say it’s a free country. Bodily autonomy is really fucking important, and forced injections is a pretty obvious example of a government violating bodily autonomy.

 

In the end, be smart, and get vaccinated. You're not proving anything by not getting the vaccine.

[Samuels 1st MRB]

5 minutes ago, Wright 1st MRB said:

But if the government can say “take this shot or else we’ll [insert punishment here],” then you can’t really say it’s a free country.

 

I agree on this end.  However, until we see something like that happen, I think the people complaining are making false equivalencies and don't understand the issues.  

 

My understanding was that the government was only saying, if you work in government, get the shot or be fired.  And there's no right to be employed, so I see no problem with that punishment

[S. Johnson 2]

56 minutes ago, Samuels 1st MRB said:

My understanding was that the government was only saying, if you work in government, get the shot or be fired.  And there's no right to be employed, so I see no problem with that punishment

So here is the example. California as that is the state I reside in mandated that all healthcare workers get the vaccine by September 30th or lose their job. Aside from one hospital that is part of the County, all other hospitals, which are privately owned and various other privately owned healthcare facilities including, but not limited to Urgent Care, Hospice, etc. were forced to comply with the mandate without recourse. I am speaking specifically for the county I live in and not for the 57 other counties in the state.

[Hansen 1st MRB]

Overall vaccine mandates are nothing new, but when a restaurant says "you cant come in here because you're not vaccinated" I think thats pretty stupid. No restaurant, bar, etc. asks to see my entire immunization records, yet a disease like the flu has the possibility to kill just as many people. Unfortunately the media has portrayed this whole issue to be a political one, and I honestly don't see this changing any time soon. 

On the topic about the vaccines itself, I feel as they were shoved to market and approved way to quickly. Sure the argument can be made that it was rushed for the pandemic under a national emergency, but it still doesnt sit right with me that it was FDA approved within 8ish months. Also I have heard way too many horror stories from different people who have gotten Moderna and Pfizer, and ended up in critical condition or even worse, unfortunately passing away. 

[Landgren]

3 hours ago, Samuels 1st MRB said:

 

I agree on this end.  However, until we see something like that happen, I think the people complaining are making false equivalencies and don't understand the issues.  

 

I also agree, however I also disagree. If things get to where people notice those things happening, it will be far too late. The world didn't realize Hitler was committing genocide until it was revealed. However, millions of people had already been killed. I don't want it to get to the point that people realize that "Hmm, I think the government is doing some shit they shouldn't" because it will already be too late. 

 

[Samuels 1st MRB]

Dude that's exactly what I'm saying by making false equivalencies.  Comparing what the government is doing to promote (and now mandate) vaccination for a virus that has killed millions of people being compared to what Hitler did and the population of Germany participating/ignoring it until the world found out, is not the same.

 

Given that the world has acknowledged that the virus is dangerous and has killed millions of people, yet one country is seemingly having unknown difficulty in having its populous, and even politicians, acknowledge the danger and severity of the virus

 

 

[MacArthur]

 

As some of you may already know, I work in a hospital and I have seen the body count rise exponentially, however, I do no support vaccine mandates. Hospital staff worked tirelessly throughout the entire pandemic. The fear of bringing the coronavirus home on our clothes, our shoes, our body, or in our breath was ever present. A slight cough was a cause for panic.

 

Healthcare systems worldwide were ill prepared for an outbreak of a respiratory virus. Very little PPE was available for hospital staff, yet time and time again we walked into COVID positive rooms, ready to assist. Many of my colleagues were infected and some have died. Most if not all hospitals are now mandating COVID vaccines, thankfully there are exception under religious or medical reason.

 

When the vaccines first rolled out in the US, healthcare personnel were the first to be vaccinated, I was among them. I did it primarily to protect my family, I did not want to bring COVID home and potentially infect them. We joked about how hospital staff was the guinea pigs for big pharma and for the government. It was our way of coping.

 

There are some segments of society that would like for us to do exactly as we are told by the government which is to take the jab, wear the mask and STFU. Americans have a legitimate reason to be skeptical of big pharma, and it is our right to express our concern. Big pharma is an institution that -just like banks-  is too big to fail and too big to jail. There have been countless cases of big pharma prioritizing profit over the wellbeing of people.

 

Countless experiments have been conducted to advance science and to advance the discovery of vaccines. The morality of some of these is highly questionable. Please visit the following LINK to read more about how US scientist experimented with humans without their consent. There are countless others. The end does not justify the means in my opinion and I feel that as Americans we should promote the idea of human rights for all, not just for some.

 

On that note, we see the division of our society here in America where lockdowns were implemented. The lockdowns even restricted the freedom to congregate and to worship. Unacceptable! One of the tenents of  the US is the freedom to worship.

 

And we see the division of our society when the BLM protests began across the country no one said anything about masks or social distancing, yet churches that defied government diktats and opened their doors for people to worship their God were fined.

 

Also, for those who adhere to Christian beliefs, the bible speaks of the coming of an age where good would called bad and bad would be called good, and were no one would be able to buy, sell, work, or live unless they had the mark of the beast, many might say that we are fast approaching that age and that these mandates are preparing the way for what is to come.

 

 

 

Thanks for reading, and please don't bash me to harshly, I am sensitive, LOL

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Vides 1st MRB
format

[C. Small 1st MRB]

Leave it to the employer if they wanna mandate compulsory vaccines , but like don't whine when they yeet your ass for being a walking vector.

 

[C. Small 1st MRB]

2 hours ago, Hansen 1st MRB said:

Overall vaccine mandates are nothing new, but when a restaurant says "you cant come in here because you're not vaccinated" I think thats pretty stupid. No restaurant, bar, etc. asks to see my entire immunization records, yet a disease like the flu has the possibility to kill just as many people. Unfortunately the media has portrayed this whole issue to be a political one, and I honestly don't see this changing any time soon. 

On the topic about the vaccines itself, I feel as they were shoved to market and approved way to quickly. Sure the argument can be made that it was rushed for the pandemic under a national emergency, but it still doesnt sit right with me that it was FDA approved within 8ish months. Also I have heard way too many horror stories from different people who have gotten Moderna and Pfizer, and ended up in critical condition or even worse, unfortunately passing away. 

 

2020 was the deadliest year on record since 1918 (spanish flu) covid is nowhere near comparable to normal influenza.

[MacArthur]

[Hansen 1st MRB]

11 minutes ago, C. Small 1st MRB said:

 

2020 was the deadliest year on record since 1918 (spanish flu) covid is nowhere near comparable to normal influenza.

Numbers from the US cant be trusted. Sure is COVID deadly for groups of people people, but hospitals are straight up lying on their case reports just so the government gives them more money. 

[Samuels 1st MRB]

Big pharma is not trying to kill its customers.  Essentially it’s the same (dark) argument as to why we treat cancer rather than curing it. 
 

If the vaccine doesn’t work, or help keep people alive, big pharma loses customers, money, and reputation.  From a business standpoint there is  little reason to trick you into getting the vaccine other than for profit motive in the long term.  IMO

[C. Small 1st MRB]

On 10/28/2021 at 11:22 PM, Hansen 1st MRB said:

Numbers from the US cant be trusted. Sure is COVID deadly for groups of people people, but hospitals are straight up lying on their case reports just so the government gives them more money. 

Source?

[Hansen 1st MRB]

6 minutes ago, C. Small 1st MRB said:

 

Source?

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/new_york_city_is_lying_about_chinese_virus_death_rates.html

Thats the only one that ive really found thats not total lies, but I also have some real life sources that show numbers are faked.

1. My cousin went tog o get tested in march, saw that the line at the local clinic was too long, and left. Later in the week he got a letter from the clinic saying he had covid, when he never even got tested for it.
2. My dad had a friend thjat opassed away from a heart attack, and the hospital asked the family if they could put COVID on the death certificate. 

[S. Johnson 2]

1 hour ago, Hansen 1st MRB said:

My dad had a friend thjat opassed away from a heart attack, and the hospital asked the family if they could put COVID on the death certificate.

Same. Had a friend that had covid but died after he wrapped his car around a tree. Death cert said COD was covid.

[Faraj]

The Vax. doesn't even stop you from getting infected by covid and they don't even try to hide that ... it only offers some limited immunity so when you get infected you don't get hospitalized, instead your body deals with it as if it was a flu.

 

Anyhow personally I'm vaccinated and my whole family is. 

A couple of months earlier my brother got infected although he had taken the full set -both of the doses  -and he had to take leave from work for two weeks until he recoverd

 

Long story short, I don't see why the Gov. should infringe the people right to do whatever they want to their bodies to get a Vax. that doesn't even STOP THE INFECTION RATE.

 

Best regards,

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Faraj 1st MRB
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[C. Small 1st MRB]

Anecdotal evidence isn't really evidence and as to that article there isn't really anything to that other than propaganda , so lets say 10% of Covid deaths are inflated , thats still 600k dead in just the US from it.

[Faraj]

Would you care to elaborate? what's the point you want to get across ? 

[Samuels 1st MRB]

I believe Small is saying that all of the personal accounts of (for example) “well I heard that my counsin’s sister’s boyfriend’s friend who is “X” profession, knew someone who died of X and they marked the cause of death incorrectly as COVID related, isn’t really evidence of anything as it’s not verifiable in large numbers or fact checked/peer reviewed. 

 

That doesn’t mean that it happens, or even if some places happens more frequently than others.  But to say that it’s happening more than a minuscule amount is probably more of an exaggeration than saying the COVID death totals are exaggerated.