Roe. Vs Wade. Overturned, out of tune of the people?

[Scinta]

What gives the supreme court the right to take away a woman's right to have an abortion at the federal level? This is an egregious decision that so many americans deserve to have not only to prevent women who are rape victims the right to abort a baby, but to give a woman a second chance in life to make better decisions about their sexuality. I for one condone this act that so many americans are against and is just another blatant attempt at childish republican evangelists to detrimentally undermine women's rights in the United States. If there is one thing you can take away from this it is completely possible for this supreme court to overrule other court decisions at the federal level such as the rights for americans to hold peaceful protests, the rights for americans to be able to have guns, you get the picture. Any law can just be ignored by this supreme court and everyday they hold our freedoms and rights that we take for granted away without our voice being heard? this is insanity.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Scinta 1st MRB

[Samuels 1st MRB]

Let’s chat on discord later because I have a whole bunch of thoughts about this that I don’t have time to put into words (at this very second).  
 

Before getting into it too much, I am 100% pro-choice and think this is a disastrous and downright shameful ruling, even when it was leaked a few weeks/months back.  What concerns me now is Justice Thomas’s concurring opinion using this as a basis to revisit SCOTUS’s important individual privacy rights under substantive due process from  Obergfell (gay marriage), Lawrence (privacy within home), and Griswold (contraceptives) might fuck over what feels like 80%+ of Americans.

 

From a scholarly position purely (given my profession), as much as I disagree on a fundamental basis with the holding I am astounded how Justice Alito wrote the opinion when Chief Justice Robert’s opinion did the same thing but without inflaming half the country.

 

I agree that this is a dangerous precedent that was set and now things may be set in motion going forward that will forever ensure deadlock on a variety of issues given that the US government has become so partisan into a branch that’s sole purpose was to remain unaffected by petty politics and focus on the words and meaning of the laws only.

 

I hope that this poor decision gets overturned soon or that Congress gets it’s head out of its ass and codify Roe/Casey into law to get around this.

[Murl 1st MRB]

Deleted my post, it seems you already covered what i was saying Samuels. I agree this is setting a bad precedent. As if precedent matters anymore, each one of those new justices said they would not touch roe vs wade before becoming justices. Words have no meaning to these people. Voting matters and we need to be out in droves come November if you feel this is wrong. 

 

[N. Garcia]

me to congress:

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by N. Garcia 1st MRB

[MacArthur]

First off, it is of utmost importance for all Americans to be able to respect each other's opinions, even if we don't agree on all of them. For those that may say that this was a secret plot by "republican evangelists," I would like to remind you that this country was indeed founded by people with Christian values and ideals.  Even then, the constitution provides safeguards for your right to worship as you would, or not to worship at all. 

 

The SCOTUS was populated by a liberal majority for a really long time, and we can clearly see the effects of it in our society, for good or for bad. Now that the SCOTUS is populated by a conservative majority, these decisions should come as no surprise to anyone, and no one should target specific groups of people for slander or malicious accusations based on personal opinions or values.

 

I am pro-life and I believe that human life begins at conception. Some may disagree. This belief does not make me a good or a bad person. It is simply my belief. 

 

People that are having consensual coitus without the use of contraceptives should know that it may result in pregnancy. The responsibility falls onto both partners engaging in consensual coitus to know that the possibility of pregnancy is present. There are many ways to prevent a pregnancy. If a pregnancy is not actively desired, contraceptives can be used to reduce the risk of pregnancy. Abortion is not the only way. However, I believe legislation should be enacted to guide our society when it comes to any instances of rape, incest, danger to mother, and or danger to the unborn baby.  It seems to me like it will be up to the states to legislate on this matter. So have your voice heard. Get involved. Contact your legislators, be active and further your opinion through as many lawful ways as you'd like to.

 

Also, let us not become so polarized as a people so as to not be able to speak courteously on civil matters, even though there are some OUTSIDERS (non-Americans) that would encourage such divisions within our society.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by MacArthur BAR

[Landgren]

Just for sake of the argument, I am not politically or socially versed in any way. All I can do is provide my opinions. I o agree to the fact that a woman should have the full right to govern their bodies, just the same as men do. After all we are ALL human beings regardless of any distinguishing marks or features. However, I also believe the baby deserves a chance at life. After all, there is no way to know how important that baby may become, so I believe the baby has the right to have a chance at life without it being killed before the ability to function on their own even begins. However, in cases such as rape, I do understand the desire to be rid of the very manifestation of your trauma. So in my opinion victims of rape do have the FULL and unhindered choice to do with the baby as they see fit. Though I would still be inclined to suggest that the baby be given a chance. I am pro choice, and pro life. With that being said, I would prefer if somehow the baby could be "transplanted" somehow into a woman that is willing to carry them to term. I'm no doctor or anything like that so I have no idea how possible that is now or may be in the future, but that would be worth the work to make it happen. No from the perspective of an American, the right to choose what happens to your own body isn't negotiable. The rights granted to us in our Constitution are the very basis of our nation. The freedoms, liberties, and rights that have been fought for, that men and women have died for, are absolute. NONE of them are negotiable and none are to be limited. So, even though we may or may not like, it doesn't matter. The right to choose is just as important as any other right. Because after all, if the government figures out that they can remove one right, what's to stop them from trying it with others. Every day the United States receive immigrants seeking a better life, one that allows them to choose ho they live, how to raise their children, among other things. The very freedoms that so many have fought and die for shouldn't be even remotely diminished. We are, as of now, a free people with the right to live and die how we want. So if you don't like it, fine, you don't have to. 

[Martinez 1st MRB]

As very few of you know, because I don't parade it around, I am a Catholic. I believe in Pro-Life, life begins at conception. My belief is a complicated one because I am a convert to Catholicism. Prior, I was a mixed believer. I felt that I was Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. If a women was pregnant, abortion was okay if it was one of the following parameters: rape, is a minor, baby going to be born with issues (like from a mother that uses drugs) or threated the mothers' life. In all other cases I believed that the baby should be born, it is the mothers' choice to keep the baby or put it up for adoption. Now that I am Catholic, I am Pro-Life no options. This is hard for me because in the event that it threatens the mothers' life, I have mixed fillings. My wife made me promise her, that in the event that her life is threated during a pregnancy, I will respect her choice and help the baby to survive. 

 

Growing up, I questioned why Abortion was ever made legal. Was this something that was added because it was the woman's right or was it added as a fix to a problem. As a hobby, I read a lot of USA history, because history is important and will shape the future. I never liked the company Planned Parenthood, yes, they provide good reading material and services other than abortion to women to help them through a pregnancy and to talk about pregnancy. Abortion is their #1 product. The leader of it, chose to seek the assistance of the KKK to help promote Birth Control and a woman's right to abortion. She also believed and voted on legislation that would allow states to forcibly sterilize those labeled as unfit. In my mind, abortion in general was allowed as a way to remove unwanted people from American society. 

 

Adoption! Adoption is always an option for a mother, you can drop off a baby at almost any Fire Department, no questions asked. People get upset that you would put a child into the system but there are parents out there that want to adopt. For those that cannot have kids that want them, it costs an average of $40,000, but potentially more to adopt them. If they could reduce this cost, then people would see that adoption is a viable alternative to abortion.

 

Landgren, I would love for them to find a way for another to carry the child, there are many things there, that I don't think can be replicated. How the mother feeds the child and keeping the replacement mother's body from attacking the child as a virus. 

 

 

 

 

[Warren 1st MRB]

My first comment on this matter, is congratulations United States of America for setting women's rights back a 100 years. I find it kind of funny that idiots like Mitch McConnell are so offended by abortion or a woman's choice to seek one. A man (if you can call that spineless puke that) can choose what a woman can do to her body... Using the whole, we're catholic excuse and using religion as your basis on suppressing a woman's right to choose what she does with her own body is fucked. Fact of the matter is, its a bunch of religious whack jobs imposing their stupid beliefs on everybody else who may have other views (typical catholics). Ricky Gervais says it best, if something offends you, nobody gives a fuck, nobody is forcing you to sit there in the room while some random woman is getting an abortion so move on with your life and worry about your own issues. If you are pro life, that's fine by me, that is your choice, but stop imposing your beliefs on others. Going off the words of a book, created by man, off the hearsay of other men thousands of years ago in a completely different language then edited to the likes of specific kings or leaders sort of breaks your whole #jesus told me to do it reasoning because it's bullshit. There are several "editions" of the bible? why is that, was somebody offended and changed the words to meet their stupid beliefs? sort of sounds like what the US is doing for women's rights at the moment. The whole pro-life movement is fucked in my opinion, bunch of people offended by the choices of other people who guess what, maybe don't preach the same religion, aren't religious at all, etc. The Catholic track record isn't something I'd be bragging about now days given the 1000's of indigenous children's unmarked graves across Canada from failing to "convert". A church filled with pedophiles, women rights abusers and hypocritical men trying to retain their control over women. 

I'm not saying there shouldn't be some rules and stipulations, for example in Canada, it's almost all but impossible to get an abortion past 16 weeks, which is the norm around the world. There are many many reasons for abortion, rape, underaged, not financially responsible enough (which for the record a single mom on welfare costs the rest of us tax payers money and potentially ends her chances of being a productive part of society because not all people are ready for such a challenge physically or mentally). Accidents do happen and sometimes the best solution isn't having a child. I have a child who turns 6 next month, and not every would me and my gf have ever of thought of abortion, same goes if we ever had another. That is our choice. Other people choose to do what they want, it doesn't affect me or you, so what's the issue?

 

If I've offended anybody here, I'll start by saying nobody forced you to continue reading if you've reached this point of my rant, thus proving the issues with a society driven on hurt feelings. Suck it up, move on, life goes on, some other woman needing an abortion isn't ruining your ability to breath, your ability to live a full life and be happy. The bashing of Catholicism, is my opinion. I was born and raised catholic, was at church weekly as well as catechism. I'll outright say, I'm not proud to admit that. There is nothing to be proud of about the catholic church or their many many many shortfalls and perversions throughout history. The sooner we can learn to live together without all being a bunch of offended, judgmental, racist bitches, the sooner mankind can thrive. 

This is my opinion, respect it, hate it, either way it doesn't effect or bother me, you do you. We all have views and opinions, and that's ok until the point you try and push them on others. Don't be surprised if the decrease in abortion access results in the increase of suicide numbers among young women.

Free abortion in Canada, tired of living in medieval times. Come on up.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Warren 1st MRB

[Samuels 1st MRB]

I think this all boils back down to what is meant to be a separation of church and state within America.

 

yes, the founders were religious people but they intended for the government they founded to be guided by governing without forcing their personal beliefs on others.  Hence the freedoms contained within the First Amendment and later implied via substantive due process with the 5th and 14th (federal and state).

 

The problem now is not that people have differing opinions on issues, it’s that discussion and debate has become so polarized and politicized that no one can have a discussion with opposing viewpoints without wanting to slug the person they disagree with.

 

We all have different opinions on this topic and many others.  However, none of us are women.  It is fundamental that we are not the ones who are predominantly or directly affected by this change.  Moreover, who are we to say what should be done to a woman’s body.  
 

This is exactly what anti-vaxers were screaming about last year, but now are quiet because it’s not effecting them, it’s only directed at women.

 

At the end of the day, this is one of the topics where an opinion and beliefs can be had, but they should not be forced upon others.

 

 

 

[C. Small 1st MRB]

To quote Thomas Jefferson : Rest assured for there will forever be a wall between church and state.

Edited June 25, 2022 by C. Small 1st MRB

[Martinez 1st MRB]

Warren, one of the problems with society nowadays is that people get too butt hurt when others express their opinions or feelings about a topic. People in society don't know how to handle when someone has a belief that is not the same as theirs. They believe you are with me or against me, full fight, no compromise.

 

I agree that opinions and beliefs cannot and must not be forced on anybody. You are exactly right, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

 

One of the problems we have is when does life start, I believe that it starts at conception. Some believe when the child is born, some at 16 weeks, some earlier, some later. So I believe we have to protect the rights of the unborn child. Mother gets abortion, was seen as choice. Pregnant mother killed by a person, they are typically charged with a 2 counts of murder. (this happened in a few cases that I read. I understand this may not be all). 63 Million aborted since 1973. This year, 20 million so far world wide. WHO estimates 40-50 million worldwide every year. 

 

If I find out someone gets an abortion, I tend to have the same reaction to sin in general. Like me, they are a person, no-one is without sin. I pray for them. I don't hate them, I don't scold them, I pray for peace for the person. This is one of the problems of the Catholic church. It bred anger and disrespect for so many years. Times are changing, but based on the years of issues, it may not seem that way, and it will take decades of more changes for the Catholic church to fix or better yet, to apologize for priors. Too many times do I see Catholics and other religious talk about hate of another for their supposed wrong beliefs. 

[Samuels 1st MRB]

I think where people tend to get turned off on the entire issues is using it solely as a form of "birth control" or "contraceptive."   And while I still stand by my own belief that its a person's choice what they do with their body, I think that what Roe had provided for was at least a template and middle ground to try and satisfy both sides.  Roe/Casey at least allowed there to be some point where those who wish to protect a fetus have their way, while allowing women still to have a predominant say in their bodily autonomy.

 

Had the Court revised the viability test from Roe/Casey rather than chucked it out the window in the name of morality, I think it would be a slightly different conversation that everyone is having (albeit that people would be unhappy regardless).

 

 

[Martinez 1st MRB]

I used to see that people were very common, more and more people were around the middle ground. Now, I feel like it is all or none with major groups of extremists on both sides. Those that remain in the middle are no longer part of the majority. 

[Samuels 1st MRB]

Sadly America has become increasingly tribalized since 2008 when Obama was first elected or 2012 after his reelection. 

 

Trump's brand of, well whatever you call it, awakened a part of this country that had been shoved off to either end of the political spectrum, and with cancel culture and everything else going on, if you don't agree with one side or the other, you're branded a racist, sexist, transphobe, etc depending on the topic at issue.

 

 

[C. Small 1st MRB]

Has also exposed the issue of how you lot pick your supreme court , having politicians picking a supreme court member for life seems a recipe for disaster especially when you consider that a president who served only 4 years got 3 supreme justices in.

[MacArthur]

12 hours ago, Warren 1st MRB said:

Using the whole, we're catholic excuse and using religion as your basis on suppressing a woman's right to choose what she does with her own body is fucked. Fact of the matter is, its a bunch of religious whack jobs imposing their stupid beliefs on everybody else who may have other views (typical catholics).

 

All religions have their set of values and beliefs. It is our choice whether to share or not share these values and beliefs. Attacking religious groups and using them as scapegoats because their values and beliefs do not align with ours is absolute idiocy. Hasty generalizations of religious groups only lead us down the path of intolerance, bigotry and hatred. Making these incendiary statements only create further hate and encourage violent extremist groups to attack churches. These statements do not provide any real solutions. Attacking religion because their revered scriptures speak plainly against its members engaging in homosexualism, abortion, and other activities is abhorrent.

 

I believe that the SCOTUS came to this decision after much deliberation, and it was not a decision made solely because of "religion." I don't think that the SCOTUS operates under a "hey let's fuck over the American people" mindset, quite the contrary, I believe that the SCOTUS has the best interest of this nation and its people in mind when making any decisions.

 

12 hours ago, Warren 1st MRB said:

The Catholic track record isn't something I'd be bragging about now days given the 1000's of indigenous children's unmarked graves across Canada from failing to "convert". A church filled with pedophiles, women rights abusers and hypocritical men trying to retain their control over women. 

 

The natives had their own religious beliefs violently suppressed and mostly erased by the European invaders in the name of Christianity. This is a fact and trying to claim the moral high ground and shifting the blame by attacking only the bad "Catholics" is not correct. 

 

If we were to be honest with one another, it was Europeans who came to this continent to rape, murder, pillage, spread disease, and steal the lands in the name of their Religion, King, and Country.

 

The Mayas revered pregnant women and also children. This is in stark contrast to medieval Europe where monarchies would let baby girls sit outside the castle walls and die because they were not deemed a "suitable heir."

 

Attacking religious groups because they don't condone activities one may condone such as: homosexualism, adultery, abortion, among other activities is messed up bro. Respect needs to go both ways. People should be free to live their lives and to worship as they seem fit without having to be attacked, ostracized, or scapegoated by others.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by MacArthur BAR

[Warren 1st MRB]

12 hours ago, MacArthur BAR said:

 

All religions have their set of values and beliefs. It is our choice whether to share or not share these values and beliefs. Attacking religious groups and using them as scapegoats because their values and beliefs do not align with ours is absolute idiocy. Hasty generalizations of religious groups only lead us down the path of intolerance, bigotry and hatred. Making these incendiary statements only create further hate and encourage violent extremist groups to attack churches. These statements do not provide any real solutions. Attacking religion because their revered scriptures speak plainly against its members engaging in homosexualism, abortion, and other activities is abhorrent.

 

I believe that the SCOTUS came to this decision after much deliberation, and it was not a decision made solely because of "religion." I don't think that the SCOTUS operates under a "hey let's fuck over the American people" mindset, quite the contrary, I believe that the SCOTUS has the best interest of this nation and its people in mind when making any decisions.

 

 

The natives had their own religious beliefs violently suppressed and mostly erased by the European invaders in the name of Christianity. This is a fact and trying to claim the moral high ground and shifting the blame by attacking only the bad "Catholics" is not correct. 

 

If we were to be honest with one another, it was Europeans who came to this continent to rape, murder, pillage, spread disease, and steal the lands in the name of their Religion, King, and Country.

 

The Mayas revered pregnant women and also children. This is in stark contrast to medieval Europe where monarchies would let baby girls sit outside the castle walls and die because they were not deemed a "suitable heir."

 

Attacking religious groups because they don't condone activities one may condone such as: homosexualism, adultery, abortion, among other activities is messed up bro. Respect needs to go both ways. People should be free to live their lives and to worship as they seem fit without having to be attacked, ostracized, or scapegoated by others.

 

It would appear I've triggered you, so lets settle this. My opinion, is that religious people are entitled to their beliefs and values however to push those beliefs and values on many other people is absolute horseshit. It may be against their scripture, and as revered as you claim it may be, there are others of us out there who do not follow and should not be forced to follow this said scripture. So in essence, I don't personally give a fuck what your beliefs are, if a person chooses to be gay, chooses to get an abortion, it is not your choice or any religious followings choice of what they do to their own body. You have a right to your own path, you do not however have a right to dictate the path of others who may not follow the same scripture or may perhaps like myself not believe in religion or god at all. I personally believe in evolution and science, and I've been "attacked" by religious goers for this perspective numerous times, so lets not go there. Intolerance works both ways. I'm not intolerant pal, I believe everybody has a choice to do as they wish and I respect that. If you choose to follow religion, good for you, it does not affect me and I'm happy for you until you drive shit down my neck and try to push it on others.

Secondly I implore you to do some research before commenting on matters you clearly have no clue what you're talking about regarding the indigenous situation in Canada. Since you never did that allow me to fill in for you.

 

The term residential schools refers to an extensive school system set up by the Canadian government and administered by churches that had the nominal objective of educating Indigenous children but also the more damaging and equally explicit objectives of indoctrinating them into Euro-Canadian and Christian ways of living and assimilating them into mainstream white Canadian society. The residential school system officially operated from the 1880s into the closing decades of the 20th century. The system forcibly separated children from their families for extended periods of time and forbade them to acknowledge their Indigenous heritage and culture or to speak their own languages. Children were severely punished if these, among other, strict rules were broken. Former students of residential schools have spoken of horrendous abuse at the hands of residential school staff: physical, sexual, emotional, and psychological. Residential schools provided Indigenous students with inappropriate education, often only up to lower grades, that focused mainly on prayer and manual labour in agriculture, light industry such as woodworking, and domestic work such as laundry work and sewing.

Residential schools systematically undermined Indigenous, First Nations, Métis and Inuit cultures across Canada and disrupted families for generations, severing the ties through which Indigenous culture is taught and sustained, and contributing to a general loss of language and culture. Because they were removed from their families, many students grew up without experiencing a nurturing family life and without the knowledge and skills to raise their own families. The devastating effects of the residential schools are far-reaching and continue to have a significant impact on Indigenous communities. The residential school system is widely considered a form of genocide because of the purposeful attempt from the government and church to eradicate all aspects of Indigenous cultures and lifeworlds.

From the 1990s onward, the government and the churches involved—Anglican, Presbyterian, United, and Roman Catholic—began to acknowledge their responsibility for an education scheme that was specifically designed to “kill the Indian in the child.” On June 11, 2008, the Canadian government issued a formal apology in Parliament for the damage done by the residential school system. In spite of this and other apologies, however, the effects remain.

Thousands of unmarked graves from little children have been uncovered in the last year alone. So forgive me if I have a hate on for the Catholic Church and other religions. Growing up and being finishing my confirmation as catholic, I'm ashamed to have been brought up in the teachings of any religion that could allow such atrocities to be carried out. This isn't generalizing "bad" christians, this was genocide from the top levels all the way down. If you choose to follow this, once again, that is your choice and I'm not telling anybody they shouldn't but I also don't expect to be judged for my views either. 

I hope you're more educated now, do some research going forward prior to referring to people as idiotic. Have a seat, and a great day.

[MacArthur]

"X member of x group did bad, therefore, all members of x group are bad" 

 

That kind of logic/argument is flawed bro.

 

Hatred and intolerance is not cool bro bro. 

 

There was never a "triggered" and there was never a need to "settle" anything.

 

More importantly, the SCOTUS decision was not about religious morality my man, thats the whole point.  It was a question of constitutionality. The SCOTUS  decision is not imposing religious morality on anyone. Furthermore, if a majority of American people really wanted to they could pass an amendment to the constituion.

 

"The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives." 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by MacArthur BAR

[C. Small 1st MRB]

Rules for life

 

 

[Warren 1st MRB]

27 minutes ago, MacArthur BAR said:

"X member of x group did bad, therefore, all members of x group are bad" 

 

That kind of logic/argument is flawed bro.

 

Hatred and intolerance is not cool bro bro. 

 

There was never a "triggered" and there was never a need to "settle" anything.

 

More importantly, the SCOTUS decision was not about religious morality my man, thats the whole point.  It was a question of constitutionality. The SCOTUS  decision is not imposing religious morality on anyone. Furthermore, if a majority of American people really wanted to they could pass an amendment to the constituion.

 

"The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives." 

 

Want to quote where I said anywhere at all that ALL of those people are bad?  I said follow your religion, be happy, mind your own business and enjoy life. I don't care what race, religion, political agenda you follow, at the end of the day we are all one species deeply divided over stupid shit.

 

I also don't understand where hatred or intolerance come in to the picture as I never stated I hate anybody, and I tolerate every individuals right to practice or do what they want as it is their life to do so and it does not effect me. The only intolerance I can see is with pro life supporters being offended that others might be ok with abortion but since it goes against their beliefs they need to cry about it and set women's human rights back decades. 

 

Everybody thinks their opinion matters, when really it doesn't. People need to worry about their own lives and leave other humans to do as they want plain and simple "bro".

[Warren 1st MRB]

On 6/25/2022 at 12:47 PM, Martinez 1st MRB said:

Warren, one of the problems with society nowadays is that people get too butt hurt when others express their opinions or feelings about a topic. People in society don't know how to handle when someone has a belief that is not the same as theirs. They believe you are with me or against me, full fight, no compromise.

 

I agree that opinions and beliefs cannot and must not be forced on anybody. You are exactly right, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

 

One of the problems we have is when does life start, I believe that it starts at conception. Some believe when the child is born, some at 16 weeks, some earlier, some later. So I believe we have to protect the rights of the unborn child. Mother gets abortion, was seen as choice. Pregnant mother killed by a person, they are typically charged with a 2 counts of murder. (this happened in a few cases that I read. I understand this may not be all). 63 Million aborted since 1973. This year, 20 million so far world wide. WHO estimates 40-50 million worldwide every year. 

 

If I find out someone gets an abortion, I tend to have the same reaction to sin in general. Like me, they are a person, no-one is without sin. I pray for them. I don't hate them, I don't scold them, I pray for peace for the person. This is one of the problems of the Catholic church. It bred anger and disrespect for so many years. Times are changing, but based on the years of issues, it may not seem that way, and it will take decades of more changes for the Catholic church to fix or better yet, to apologize for priors. Too many times do I see Catholics and other religious talk about hate of another for their supposed wrong beliefs. 

Well said my friend, the world needs more people like yourself. 

 

I find it funny when any religious person passes judgements on a person for abortion, being gay, etc when the Bible clearly states multiple times not to judge others. 

 

Luke 6:37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven"

 

Jame 4:11-12 "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

 

 

[Scinta]

Just make a religion called Women's Rights. uno reverse card 

[Warren 1st MRB]

[Flobbs]

I realize this is an old topic, but just giving my 2 cents.

 

In my opinion, If you examine state laws (at least here in the US since I know not everyone is from the US), most states have laws against killing unborn children (fetus). For example, California, who is a very strong proponent of abortion, makes it illegal to murder a fetus (under penal code 187(a)), and many other states who support abortion have similar laws as well, but under these same laws, the States exempt the murder charge if it is related to abortion. If f we look at the murder of Lacy Peterson, her husband, Scott Peterson, was charged with and convicted of double homicide for murdering her and his unborn child (fetus) under California law 187.

So, there is really no debate as to the deliberate termination of a child (fetus) since it is evident that many States including those who strongly support abortion recognize the deliberate killing of a fetus as murder. The debate however, is with the individual committing the crime:
If a father kills his unborn child, this constitutes a murder charge by such laws. If the mother kills her unborn child, this is still classified as murder but the law exempts it as abortion. Both result in the termination of the child (fetus), it just depends on who does the killing. If it is the father, it is murder, but if it is the mother, it is called “CHOICE” ? why is that? what's so different between the two scenarios? is it solely based on who decides the death? is it really that simple? 

 

just my thoughts on the subject