Facts About Marijuana

[Cramer]

basically my point lies in that I am a Biology student, and when you look at cross sections of human brain and compare tissues from a marijuana user to those of a non user, there is a scary amount of scaring that has resulted from neuropathy and the brains natural plasticity to try and over come these new obstacles (dead areas thou small can be many) Now I am going to bed, so I won't see any response

You do realize that effects such as this.. are usually caused by HEAVY marijuana use, correct? heavy marijuana use being 6 joints a day for example? When I was smoking weed.. I smoked maybe a dimebag every two weeks.. thats about 2 grams a week... which is about 4-5 joints a week.. On average... I'm sure pot smokers take in about 15 grams a month or so? That would be nearly 30 joints a month.. just 1 joint a day.. and you'd be pretty safe to smoke about 4 joints a day for 5-10 years before anything harmful is found.. so average pot smokers can smoke 1 joint a day, every day for nearly 40 years and be fine.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Cramer 1st MRB

[Ford 1st MRB]

Simple point of this entire thread.

Pot smoking isn't good for you, period. Stop trying to justify that it is. Not saying it will kill you, just saying it's not healthy. You can state all your facts all day long.... No one has ever OD'd from pot, pot doesn't cause lung cancer (bullshit btw any smoke inhalation can cause lung cancer), pot is better for you than cigarettes and alcohol..... blah blah blah.... Shut the fuck up....

I, being an ex-pothead, and trust me kids, I have smoked more pot than probably most of you combined, am telling you, it's not healthy for you in long term, consistent usage. Does that mean you should quit? No. By all means continue if that is your will to do so. Have fun, be teenagers, your parents probably did it too. Don't however try and justify what you are doing by posting random, half-witted facts about how pot is good, and how you know a guy who knew a guy, who blew a guy that smoked pot for umpteen years and is fine. Smoke, be happy and do your thing. I posted FACTS, on why marijuana is illegal, and why I believe it shouldn't be.

As for you non-pot smokers. You are entitled to your opinions just like the rest of us. Don't however post on a topic about marijuana by saying stop shoving it down our throats. No one forced you to read anything in this thread. So you also can shut the fuck up. Post your beliefs about why marijuana should be illegal and criminalized by all means, but don't bash the beliefs of others, no matter how far fetched they may be. You have this holier-than-thou attitude because you never smoked pot.... guess what? That doesn't make you any better than anyone else. People, no matter the choices they make in life, are still equals. I smoked pot from the ages of 14 - 27 and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I met a lot of cool people, made a lot of great friends, and ended up in a lot of places I never would have been if I hadn't been smoking, jail not being one of those places. Does that make me any less of a person than you because I chose to smoke an illegal drug and you didn't? Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but no it doesn't.

Now for some fun facts about George H. W. Bush:

Hemp tax was temporarily imposed when Japan seized control of the Philippines. The U.S., who was using hemp from them to make war materials suddenly had a shortage on their hands.

While Hemp was temporarily legal, it saved the life of a young pilot by the name of George Herbert Walker Bush, who was forced to eject from his burning aircraft after a battle over the pacific. At the time he wasn't aware that:

• Parts of his aircraft engine where lubricated with hemp-seed oil.
• 100% of the parachute that saved his life was made from U.S. grown cannabis hemp.
• Virtually all of the riggings and rope of the ship that rescued him were made of hemp.
• The fire hoses of the ship were woven from cannabis hemp.

Ironically, President Bush while in Office, consistently opposed decriminalizing hemp grown in the U.S.

Now, again, I never told anyone to go out and smoke pot, nor did I oppose it's use. I just find the irony of the whole situation, and the gullibility of Americans to be astounding as usual. You realize, the same government that outlawed marijuana, is the same government that is running this country today? Take something that you adamantly oppose that the government does, say nationalized health care for example. Is it the right thing to do? Not in my opinion. Is it what the American people want? The polls don't seem to think so. It is however out of your control yet you see several threads on these forums arguing against it.

Same thing goes for marijuana. It should have never been criminalized, and I don't really care what you say, not a single person has posted a valid reason why it should have been. I have posted several reasons why it shouldn't be and how it was falsely criminalized to begin with. This is how a debate works gentlemen. Keeps your damn opinions out of this thread and start posting some facts.

=)

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

No means of disrespect Captain.. but no one is in your face about it. I'm not saying "hey! go smoke a joint! its cool! its hip! its not dangerous!".. I'm just voicing my opinion about it.

So those that are saying we're "shoving marijuana usage down throats"... stop...... don't type any further.... because you are officially not apart of this thread.. seeing as "peer pressure" or "advertisement" is not the basis of this topic. Its simply our opinions.

I disagree on the 'no one is in your face about it' part - because what you originally listed were 'FACTS' (which are NOT Opinion) that were an attempt to rationalize pot usage. The idea that those 'facts' were put up without ANY precursor or debate about the issue lends me to feel as if (this is just my opinion) that is being kind of "in your face" about it. No one was talking about the subject, no one was discussing it, and out of nowhere you bring up a thread about 'FACTS' relating to it that do nothing but rationalize it's usage using horrible logic and misguided statistics.

Then you went on to try and quantify your support of it by using 'real world' evidence and 'facts' and listing only 1/100000000000000000000th of the population as part of your 'real world' statistics.

Even yet - you talk out against REAL statistical evidence of scarring of brain tissue, with nothing but personal opinion and conjecture.

I think based on all of that - it's pretty 'in your face' to the non-users, because you refuse to admit that they may have a point and move on. You're constantly battling it, trying to get them to see and agree to your point of view (in a thread that YOU started). That is exactly what religious fanatics do, and it's why people dislike them passionately.

In order to just 'voice your opinion' - you should just state your opinion, recognize other well thought out opinions, give them their merit and move on. Don't sit and try to disprove absolutely everything anyone says with your own personal opinion, false statistics, and unrealistic ideals. At that point you're not just 'giving your opinion - you're trying to change someones mind about something. And no longer is it 'voicing an opinion' it's being 'in someones face' about the issue.

That said, I've never taken any drugs. I've broken my collerbone twice, my jaw once (in 3 spots), my back, my hand twice (both of which required extensive surgery) - and I have never so much as even taken a Tylenol or Advil - ever. I told the docs every time "don't bother with the scripts, I won't use the meds.", but they always write them and I throw them away.

I don't feel the need for ANY drug - let alone something as weak as pot. I don't need a damned plant to get me somewhere else 'psychologically', I feel as if my own intelligence and creativity can get the job done. That is just my personal opinion. And as I've said before - I could give a shit if someone DOES smoke or do drugs or whatever. MANY of my closest friends have done/do drugs. I'm okay with it - but they're not all in my face about it. They've offered, I've declined, and that's that.

Legalizing pot and it's usage therein is worth another thread on it's own IMO. It truly is a very interesting debate. Both sides bring to the table a lot of evidence, and there is a lot of interesting history to the whole situation (as Ford has pointed out).

[Zahl 1st MRB]

Alright... Im an anti-drug fanatic.... just because ive seen and experienced what it does to you.I have a brother who nearly died of intoxication (Drug overdose). Now it might not have been Marijuana, but it is a huge contributer to people who dies of overdose...

Over 90% of people who becomes drug addict says they started out with Marijuana. Smoking pot is a stage before entering the more hard and tougher drugs, just to give you a taste of it.

There is no 100% overview of marijuana, there is tons of "explanations" and "analyses" of the drug marijuana, but all showing different things.

What is quite clearly is that if you smoke Marijuana your not gonna die any earlier death than if you smoke cigarettes all your life, so the physical conditions are about the same.

But we know that the only substance that affects your brain in cigarettes and nicotine. As for Marijuana there are several more, due to the plants chemical build-up and the processing in labs.

As for the mental, marijuana is i would say is lethal, because it causes procedures in your brain that slowly eats your brain cells, and causes several mental illnesses (exposed to marijuana over time)

And besides.. when you meet a person who has smoked marijuana, he has no control of the situation and could easily be doing something he/she would regret later..

[Morton]

I would have to disagree with some of the things you posted L.T.

M.J. does not cause brain cell degeneration. I read a report on that experiment and the scientist hooked a gas mask to the monkey and pumped smoke into his lungs, suffocating him. When someone dies of suffocation the brain is the first to die, causing brain cells to die.

M.J. does not lead to further drugs in of itself. Its the dealers that the person buys from that are usually pushing heavier drugs on the buyer.

But I agree with you on the other points. Anything you over indulge in is wrong. Your body is not ment to be saturated with things.

Well thats my 2 cents.

[Zahl 1st MRB]

M.J. does not cause brain cell degeneration. I read a report on that experiment and the scientist hooked a gas mask to the monkey and pumped smoke into his lungs, suffocating him. When someone dies of suffocation the brain is the first to die, causing brain cells to die.

If exposed to marijuana over time, your brain cells will slowly stop function normally and eventually die. Thats how it is with cigarettes aswell. Anything smoke related leaves tar in your lungs and your brain, because of the very thin tissue in your lungs.

M.J. does not lead to further drugs in of itself. Its the dealers that the person buys from that are usually pushing heavier drugs on the buyer.

Thats a part of the game! you rarely meet a drug addict who just smokes marijuana, whether you explore other drugs yourself or gets pushed to it doesnt matter. the fact is that marijuana is what usually people starts with. It harms your ability to thing strait.... leaving and open market for drug addicts to try and sell you more harmful drugs

[Morton]

Thats a part of the game! you rarely meet a drug addict who just smokes marijuana, whether you explore other drugs yourself or gets pushed to it doesnt matter. the fact is that marijuana is what usually people starts with. It harms your ability to thing strait.... leaving and open market for drug addicts to try and sell you more harmful drugs

The person's moral fiber also comes into play, back when I smoked I knew guys who jumped onto the hard drugs [x and cocaine] but I stayed with pot. Now I don't even do that. But yeah, any time the dealer had other drugs he would try to push it on me. But you got to have the will power to resist and say no. It was fun to smoke a joint once every couple of days but moderation is also a key point. Personally I only drink alcohol now. And I have a strict one week rule. If i drink I have to wait a week before I drink again.

[Zahl 1st MRB]

Probably easy for you to say Morton, but there has to be something wrong when so many teenager is becoming drug addicts( dont have exact number) but, we all know that its increasing and extremely high number. And the chain is as i said usually its pot that comes first then stronger drugs. Of course a person will plays a part in choosing whether to jump on heavier stuff or let go. Therefore this Marijuana has to be dangerous. It starts with curiosity and then you get caught in the evil circle

[Morton]

Probably easy for you to say Morton, but there has to be something wrong when so many teenager is becoming drug addicts( dont have exact number) but, we all know that its increasing and extremely high number. And the chain is as i said usually its pot that comes first then stronger drugs. Of course a person will plays a part in choosing whether to jump on heavier stuff or let go. Therefore this Marijuana has to be dangerous. It starts with curiosity and then you get caught in the evil circle

Oh I know I'm an exception to the rule, I never had a real urge to experiment beyond pot. I've seen what happens to people who use hard drugs, my own father was a meth and heroin user, which is a factor in my decision to not move on to harder drugs. In my opinion pot is no more harmful than alcohol [not saying Alcohol is harmless], its just illegal. But the drug problem is getting out of control. In my R.A. job I see guys smoking pot and drinking all the time. But I rarely see or even hear about any other drugs on campus. Perhaps if M.J. was regulated like Alcohol it would solve some problems like not being around dealers.

[Lanze]

This thread is really just "wow." There will be supporters and anti-supporters always, but you still have to respect what people have to say. If someone says "here's why I believe it should be legalized or it has positive aspects," don't go off saying marijuana is a narcotic and get's you high, that's a very ignorant statement supported by no real facts. It's sad to see how "brain-washed and misinformed" some of the MRB unit members are when it comes to this subject and even still they attack other people.

Marijuana is not a "gateway" drug, this theory has been tested and asked over and over, by millions. Show me some statistics saying recreational marijuana use will higher the chance of using something like Coke or Heroin. Guaranteed the facts you pull say otherwise. University of Pittsberg, University of Amsterdam, University of Washington, University of Ohio, pull their studies on this topic, all concluded there is no "gateway" effect like people accuse to be.

Secondly, what does the US export everywhere such as Canada, that brings millions of deaths a year? Ciggarettes. Try to justify this subject and see if the topics don't clash. It doesn't make sense.

Third, decriminalization is a failure system and does not work whatsoever. What a joke. Why even have my case dismissed if i'll have something in my record titlting me as a "POT SMOKER" for the rest of my life. Why was it even dismissed then, why not just charge me, what's the difference? No government aid or school grants afterwards? Try going to school with no financial aid, its tough, nearly impossible for most, but that's how were "dealt" with.

Fourth, Marijuana does not cause Cancer, yes smoking a crude plant matter and firing it up and breathing it in your lungs is bad, obviously, but the actual Marijuana itself has no such effects. If you disagree, I respect your opinion but please support your statement with actual evidence not simply "what you think or what you think you know" I assure 80% of you are misinformed about the topic, but I'd gladly help and go more in depth about the topic if anyone was interested.

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EDIT: And this is with no pun or disrespect intended, but I will use the 2nd Lt's post for example..

"There is no 100% overview of marijuana, there is tons of "explanations" and "analyses" of the drug marijuana, but all showing different things.

-Completely false, there are thousands of studies and scientific studies, from labs to Universities to even our own Governments studies, conducted with more than enough reputable history for it to be legit information. Most if not all, concluding the current marijuana policies are a joke and make no sense. These studies do not get big media attention and often go ignored, hmm wonder why..

What is quite clearly is that if you smoke Marijuana your not gonna die any earlier death than if you smoke cigarettes all your life, so the physical conditions are about the same.

-Completely false, in comparison a ciggarette smoker and a recreational marijuana smoker, guaranteed the ciggarette smokers quality of life is lower, and health is lower. Now of course you will have your odd-number every now and then but this is definitly for "the general population."

But we know that the only substance that affects your brain in cigarettes and nicotine. As for Marijuana there are several more, due to the plants chemical build-up and the processing in labs.-Not sure where you heard this but marijuana is not processed in labs, lol. The typical marijuana bud has no affiliations with laboritories.

As for the mental, marijuana is i would say is lethal, because it causes procedures in your brain that slowly eats your brain cells, and causes several mental illnesses (exposed to marijuana over time)

-Could you please list what mental illnesses can be caused by marijuana use over time and a case where someone actually was diagnosed this because of their smoking habit. Case in fact, this is completely false, yes you lose brain cells, but causing mental illnesses is a joke, that is solely dependent on it's user and their genes/history/health.

And besides.. when you meet a person who has smoked marijuana, he has no control of the situation and could easily be doing something he/she would regret later.."

-I don't even know how to respond to this accusation. No control of the situation and could do something stupid? Sounds like a drunk to me. However, there are millions and millions are recreational marijuana smokers, why hasn't our world gone to shit yet? Because these avid people aren't the" couch-lock good for nothing stoner" you see in films, they have control over their lives, better yet, it's almost as if marijuana doesn't have the negative effect people believe it to have. It's because its true, it's a plant, its natural, do I think legalization will happen, possibly, all depends on California's voting.

Thats a part of the game! you rarely meet a drug addict who just smokes marijuana, whether you explore other drugs yourself or gets pushed to it doesnt matter. the fact is that marijuana is what usually people starts with. It harms your ability to thing strait.... leaving and open market for drug addicts to try and sell you more harmful drugs

-This is just a claim supported by nothing. The "gateway" theory simply isn't true and i've supported my argument for those unsure, people are misinformed, and because of Prohibition and because of marijuana policies, people are more susceptable to harder drugs, because they have to deal with a "dealer," who may in fact be selling one or more other substances. Not because there moving on from Marijuana to the next.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Lanze 1st MRB

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

One commonality I find interesting - from a purely social standpoint - is how quickly weed smokers are to bring up other vices.

They will not stick to weed singularly - but will say "well, drunks get in more accidents or kill more people" or "Cigarettes kill more people", they will not debate weed and only weed. This whole thread is rattled with comparisons, but no real 'discussion'.

While it's easy to say "why?", the answer to that question is not one that either side is really ready to accept - as evidenced by the amount of discussion (read as: opinion) already stated thus far into the thread.

There are far less hard 'facts' about this whole subject than either side really wants to admit.

[Zachow 1st MRB]

What Goodwin has just said is one of the few things said here that is 100% true. As for weed smokers you can become very forgetful. I made a friend of mine stop for a month and her grades went up by a whole letter grade no difference in anything else. And she said herself she could remember more.

[Lanze]

That's one person and your basing your judgment on a group of people based on a study you conducted yourself, how is this relevant or fair?

Edit: Yes, users of marijuana can get defensive, but this goes for any topic with 2-sides. We bring other "vices" into the subject because there relevant to what's being discussed, how is it any different? Alcohol prohibition is a prime example, and what is different about a ciggarette that makes it legal but makes marijuana illegal, everything we bring up and talk about has a point. We dont simply just say well "Drunks kill more than stoners." This is why there is such negligence in actually seperating the "feeded lies and bullshit" from the "truth."

TSgt you say what Goodwin says is true, but you use a irrational study to legitimize your point, which is a huge contradiction.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Lanze 1st MRB

[Zachow 1st MRB]

What study? I was just pointing out one experience which almost all of you have done yourselves.

[Lanze]

"As for weed smokers you can become very forgetful. I made a friend of mine stop for a month and her grades went up by a whole letter grade no difference in anything else. And she said herself she could remember more."

In this statement, you make a broad conclusion saying all weed smokers are forgetful which simply isn't true, what your saying is a judgement of a group of people, then you share a experience, legitimizing how not smoking does better, which also simply isn't true for all.

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

"As for weed smokers you can become very forgetful. I made a friend of mine stop for a month and her grades went up by a whole letter grade no difference in anything else. And she said herself she could remember more."

In this statement, you make a broad conclusion saying all weed smokers are forgetful which simply isn't true, what your saying is a judgement of a group of people, then you share a experience, legitimizing how not smoking does better, which also simply isn't true for all.

I believe the part I bolded was meant in jest. Relax.

[Zachow 1st MRB]

No jest just saying you CAN become that is a key word meaning it is possible not that they all are like you are saying I am stating.

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

That's one person and your basing your judgment on a group of people based on a study you conducted yourself, how is this relevant or fair?

Edit: Yes, users of marijuana can get defensive, but this goes for any topic with 2-sides. We bring other "vices" into the subject because there relevant to what's being discussed, how is it any different? Alcohol prohibition is a prime example, and what is different about a ciggarette that makes it legal but makes marijuana illegal, everything we bring up and talk about has a point. We dont simply just say well "Drunks kill more than stoners." This is why there is such negligence in actually seperating the "feeded lies and bullshit" from the "truth."

TSgt you say what Goodwin says is true, but you use a irrational study to legitimize your point, which is a huge contradiction.

Also - there's no need to bring other vices into it. Really - there's not. It's NOT relevant - you're drawing questions relating to OTHER issues, but you're not stating anything related directly TO the topic of weed. If you want to debate MJ, then debate it. Don't bring up booze, don't bring up cigs, debate the ISSUE - not other things.

How is it relevant to bring up cigs being legal and weed being not without discussing a WHOLE HOST of other issues that do not support or dissuade the usage of weed? It's not.

Those two vices in particular are used by weed smokers to try and justify - no other reason. And they are really NOT relevant.

Bring me facts relating to weed, bring me studies relating to weed, bring me evidence regarding weed. Don't bring me a bunch of shit about ciggarettes, or about booze, or about anything else.

FOCUS ON THE ISSUE.

To say that those other vices are brought up out of relevance says 1 of 2 things - A) there's not enough evidence behind your argument that you need to bring in other 'supporting roles', or you don't know enough about your argument to argue that one topic fully.

Either way - those tangents are not relevant to the issue - which is what weed does or does not do, and if it is good or is not good, and the facts relating to such.

[Lanze]

I am relaxed, this is debate, you can't expect to bring this topic up and just have a discussion on it, there's a reason why this is such a huge problem. Anything CAN happen with anything, its funny when a supporter says something its not okay and were looked upon being defensive or getting mad, you can't point the finger in someones face and not expect to get your hand slapped away.

I'm taken back by how hard-headed people are with their ideals and act as if they were open to everyone. I don't need to say anything else, please read my prior posts, they make perfect sense and are completely relevant. Saying alcohol and ciggarettes is irrelevant to this subject just "wows" me. You act as if we don't ever talk about marijuana itself and try to support our ideals solely on that, but people's arrogance make it impossible to help someone understand the topic better. Look through this thread and tell me there isn't someone who simply said, "marijuana is a drug and messes you up, it should stay illegal." Explain to me how you get through someone like this without bringing up other vices and broadening the subject.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Lanze 1st MRB

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

I am relaxed, this is debate, you can't expect to bring this topic up and just have a discussion on it, there's a reason why this is such a huge problem. Anything CAN happen with anything, its funny when a supporter says something its not okay and were looked upon being defensive or getting mad, you can't point the finger in someones face and not expect to get your hand slapped away.

I'm taken back by how hard-headed people are with their ideals and act as if they were open to everyone. I don't need to say anything else, please read my prior posts, they make perfect sense and are completely relevant. Saying alcohol and ciggarettes is irrelevant to this subject just "wows" me. You act as if we don't ever talk about marijuana itself and try to support our ideals solely on that, but people's arrogance make it impossible to help someone understand the topic better. Look through this thread and tell me there isn't someone who simply said, "marijuana is a drug and messes you up, it should stay illegal." Explain to me how you get through someone like this without bringing up other vices and broadening the subject.

I'm glad you're relaxed. You're acting as if I (or others) are not?

No one here is really pointing any fingers...

What you're saying, and how you're saying it are presenting two different sides IMO, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm sorry that discussing 1 topic, and sticking specifically to that topic 'wows' you - as that must mean that you really lack any hard evidence relating directly to the topic. Look at Ford for a great example - he discussed weed ONLY - and made amazing arguments. Arguments that others have really been unable to come back at. Did he bring up the other topics? Nope. He discussed the ISSUE. Not off-topic things that are only relevant in a crude and broad 'comparison', but he just discussed the 1 main topic (for the most part). So why do you feel that there HAS to be other vices brought up? Because as is evidenced, there doesn't need to be.

Ford did his homework, he brought tangible items to the discussion table (so to speak) and is ready to debate facts regarding ONE issue. Why can't you do that? Why is it that other people can discuss 1 topic (and just that topic) - yet you sit here and are 'Wowed' when someone say's that's how it should be done?

Explain to me why you have to 'get through to someone' rather than accepting their opinion and moving on? The fact you feel you need to 'get through to someone', is the same feeling that drives crazy religious people to preach to people who don't want to hear it. Yep, that statement makes you similar to one of them.

So, like I said - either discuss the 1 topic (as Ford did wonderfully) or just relax. We're all adults here (well, most of us) and we're all entitled to our different opinions. Even if our opinions are based on nothing more than "I don't like drugs". Sorry to ruin your day, but that's the way it is. You don't need to 'get through to them', or even discuss it further if they don't want to. Hell, why even bother responding to them if you feel their claims are ridiculous? Laugh it off and move on.

My whole original point was that the 'facts' listed were in fact just blatant lies and abuse of statistical evidence (which I can back up).

Since then we've seen everything from cigarettes, to booze, to personal experiences brought up, which really makes no one change their mind on the ONE ISSUE that should be being discussed (as Ford so eloquently did).

Long and short?

In a discussion - it's possible to discuss 1 issue without bringing in other issues.

To say that those other vices are brought up out of relevance says 1 of 2 things - A) there's not enough evidence behind your argument that you need to bring in other 'supporting roles', or you don't know enough about your argument to argue that one topic fully.

Also, I will probably not go back and read your posts (which basically just say "you guys don't know the truth!" but provide no truth in the statements themselves) because I'm okay with continuing to move forward in a discussion.

[Lanze]

This is turning into arguement more than anything..but solely regarding this topic you are the most ignorant person I have ever talked to..

I'm not here to persaude anyones ideal on this topic, your thoughts are your own, but I have my opinion and will state it here in the most respectful way, without any sarcasm or pun. Don't put words in my mouth. You come at someone saying their thoughts are incorrect of course that person is going to come back at you with a rebuttal, are they not? You keep telling me that bringing up ciggarettes and alcohol is stupid and doesn't support anything whatsoever, support your argument instead of shooting it down. Who are you to conclude what is relevant in a discussion or not without giving reason? At least I'm putting in effort to give reason instead of a statement. The reason why people keep posting about these "vices" are because it has everything to do with the subject, Marijuana, which is the topic of this thread in the Slope section of the forums.

"My whole original point was that the 'facts' listed were in fact just blatant lies and abuse of statistical evidence (which I can back up). Since then we've seen everything from cigarettes, to booze, to personal experiences brought up, which really makes no one change their mind on the ONE ISSUE that should be being discussed (as Ford so eloquently did). In a discussion - it's possible to discuss 1 issue without bringing in other issues. To say that those other vices are brought up out of relevance says 1 of 2 things"

How is what the OP is saying just blatant lies and bullshit? Your imposing your judgement without giving anyone a chance. I've heard other posters regarding the Hemp Industry, other medicines, other drugs, other topics, why are you judging what is okay to post here and what's not?

"Sorry to ruin your day, but that's the way it is. You don't need to 'get through to them', or even discuss it further if they don't want to. Hell, why even bother responding to them if you feel their claims are ridiculous?" Don't worry about ruining my day, your not, as a SSgt you should know how to talk to people with respect without pun, debate or not, were here to discuss yet your shooting everyone down and threatening to close the thread down, for what? Add some more attacks in your posts, please, this is the discussion section of non-important topics in the forums, discussing my ideals is permitted if I remember..

Edited July 12, 2010 by Lanze 1st MRB

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

This will be my last post, hence this is turning into arguement more than anything..but solely regarding this topic you are the most ignorant person I have ever talked to..

Because ad-hominem attacks are great - especially when once again you fail to back them up with anything other than "you don't know what your talking about". There's not a fact you've put forward yet, not one. At least the others contributing positively to this thread have provided evidence supporting their statements, not mearly saying "you're ignorant, you don't know what you're talking about" without any other shred of evidence.

I'm not here to persaude anyones ideal on this topic,

You already said (and I quote) "how do you get through to someone like that?" which implies by it's very essence you wish to persuade ideals on the topic. Nice backpedal, but which is the truth? Either you are, or you aren't - you've said both.

your thoughts are your own, but I have my opinion and will state it here in the most respectful way, without any sarcasm or pun. Don't put words in my mouth. You come at someone saying their thoughts are incorrect of course that person is going to come back at you with a rebuttal, are they not?

Firstly, I didn't say his thoughts are incorrect. I said the 'facts' (which he got from another website) were wrong. Therefore, you're wrong on two accounts - they weren't his ideas, and they were facts, not thoughts.

You keep telling me that bringing up ciggarettes and alcohol is stupid and doesn't support anything whatsoever, support your argument instead of shooting it down. Who are you to conclude what is relevant in a discussion or not without giving reason? At least I'm putting in effort to give reason instead of a statement. The reason why people keep posting about these "vices" are because it has everything to do with the subject, Marijuana, which is the topic of this thread in the Slope section of the forums.

Again, the best comments on this thread have had to do with 1 thing - weed. The other vices are not relevant, and as the most informative posts have already shown - that 1 issue can be discussed without including the other vices in an elaborate, well thought out and intelligent manner. Also, I'm not 'concluding' that other things aren't relevant, I kind of figured it was common sense.

It's like this - if we wanted to have a discussion about apples, then wouldn't it be safe to assume that we're going to talk about various kinds of apples, flavors of apples, colors of apples, prices of apples even... but I doubt that there would be much relevance to the conversation to start bringing up pears and discussing them - even though they are also a fruit, also sweet, also come off a tree, etc. That is why I kind of figured it common sense to NOT discuss cigs/alcohol - because they're not relevant. They are not weed, they are not part of the discussion. Simple as that - I'm not concluding anything - just using a little thought about how discussions typically are laid out. Besides, I mearly made an observance that those two vices are something typically brought up and don't need to be. Relax.

"Sorry to ruin your day, but that's the way it is. You don't need to 'get through to them', or even discuss it further if they don't want to. Hell, why even bother responding to them if you feel their claims are ridiculous?" Don't worry about ruining my day, your not, as a TSgt you should learn to talk to people with respect, debate or not, were here to discuss yet your shooting everyone down and threatening to close the thread down, for what?

Also, I'm not a TSgt., nor would I close this thread even if I could. Nor am I shooting down everyone (I haven't responded to Ford's well thought out posts have I? There are plenty of other comments I've not said a word about as well). In fact, I've done nothing but state that the original facts presented are wrong on multiple levels, and reinforced that mostly throughout this thread.

I'm sorry if you feel it's disrespectful to not agree with you. That's a shame, and I figured we were all aware the fact not everyone agrees with our own independent ideas.. But I imagine this debate will continue, in fact I hope it does. Outside of comments that state "you guys don't know what you're talking about" with no supporting evidence, this has been a really fun/interesting thread to read/discuss.

[Zachow 1st MRB]

This is just turning into a flame war.

CLOSED

[Yamagata 1st MRB]

BYAAAH!