Gratuitous video card buying advice

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Buying video cards is one of the most difficult prospects out there for the average gamer. Seperating the "fanboi" from the informed consumer is pretty tough, but I'm going to start offering some gratuitous advice on video cards.

Right now, if you are in the market for a new gpu, my advice is to *HOLD*. Do not buy a video card for a couple of weeks. AMD has just come out with a very nice mid-range product that is on par (or possibly a bit ahead or behind) nvidia's latest factory overclocked cards. The issue at hand here is the pricing of these cards is in quite a state of flux. You have several cards within $100 of each other that are all pretty good cards. Right now, the AMD 6850, Nvidia GTX460 (1 GB), AMD 6870, Nvidia GTX 470, and the AMD 5850 are all withing $100 of each other. However, Nvidia just slashed prices on their GTX 460's, but rumors are that AMD will be cutting prices as well.

Also, AMD has pulled a bad trick on us all.... the x8xx-naming now designates their midrange. They've done away with the x7xx's (5770, 4770, etc) and are now calling the 6850 and 6870 the midrange. The 5850 and 5870 are still their strongest/fastest cards. Confused enough? Yeah, I'm not a fan.

Here is a breakdown by performance with their current prices.

GTX 460 768 MB $169

Radeon 6850 $179

GTX 460 1GB (625 MHz) $199

GTX 460 1GB (810 MHz) $215

GTX 460 1GB (850 MHz) $229

Radeon 6870 $239

Radeon 5850 $259

GTX 470 $259

The hard part here is that the Radeon 5850 can be had for as little as $199 while the GTX 470 can be had for $239.

Please look at this as a good time for consumers. If you have specific games you are curious about the performance of, I can hit up some reputable sites for you and find out. Just don't ask for the best overall card, because its just too tough of a question.

Prices should have a bit more flux in them in the next two weeks, but if this is your price bracket, wait a bit and you'll get a great deal on a great card.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

How long can I expect my Radeon 5770 to last? Sorry if its a broad question, but I would like to have some idea as to when I will need to replace it.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Its actually a pretty good question. The simple answer you would get from a lot "tech sites" would be that its already out of date.

However, the answer I have for you is that it depends on two things:

1. The resolution you game at. - Your card is very good up to 1680x1050

2. The games you play. - you won't be able to crank the eye-candy.

That being said, I have a 5770 that I used as a replacement for a GTX285. Now, the GTX285 was the fastest single chip video card made until the 5870 came out a year ago. However, I found that I just didn't need that much power because I only game at 1680x1050. Before that, I had a 4850. The 5770 sits between the 4850 and the 4870, but is nowhere close to the 5850.

In the next couple of weeks, you may be in a position to upgrade for cheap. Once prices stabilize, look around between the various flavors (clock speeds) of GTX460 and the 6850 and see which has the better price. Then post your video card up on craigslist for $50 (it currently sells for $80 on-line. You may be able to make a pretty nice upgrade for ~$130. When I sold my GTX285, it was still the fastest card nvidia made (and there is some wierd group out there that is VERY pro-nvidia and nvidia-only), and I got $175 for it. Granted, it was selling for $350 on line, but it was not nearly worth that price. It got snapped up pretty quick.

[Janke 1st MRB]

Personally I've been looking at getting the 768MB GTX460, it's only $169 (newegg.ca) and my 9600GT is getting aged.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Its a very solid card. But just don't jump for a couple of weeks. The 6850 is a better card, but it isn't worth the $20 price difference right now. If that price comes down a bit, I'd go for that one.

BTW, the 9600GT was also a card I had. It was great for DODS, but on more recent games/engines, it did start to show its age rather badly.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

I've got a 9800GT .. its getting really old lol

Well, yeah. Its essentially a reworked 8800 GT, which was a great card... in 2007. But, unless you are pushing some new games you could be great for DODS. However, since you play Civ 5, I'd look to upgrade. Its got some pretty good eye candy for an RTS. But, you could get ~$100 for your card, making an upgrade cheap.

[Janke 1st MRB]

Civ is a TBS (turn based strategy), not an RTS (real time strategy).

[Le 1st MRB]

My Nividia GeForce FX 5200 Overclocked is still going strong...

[Janke 1st MRB]

My Nividia GeForce FX 5200 Overclocked is still going strong...

HOW THE HELL? It's an entry level card from 2003, how in the hell is it still going strong? You sure you've got the right card?

[Dillon 1st MRB]

HOW THE HELL? It's an entry level card from 2003, how in the hell is it still going strong? You sure you've got the right card?

He's probably playing 1.3, Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear, and Pong.

[Ford 1st MRB]

SLI (Nvidia) or Crossfire (ATI) have their pros, as well as cons.

Im currently running 2 GTX 275's in SLI. Some games like it, some games don't understand there are two cards, and some games just flat out don't support more than one GPU.

Add to that the extra headroom required to run a second card and there goes your electric bill, not only to support the larger PSU, but the air conditioning to keep the room cool from all the added heat.

My room my computer is in is a good 15 - 20 degrees warmer than the rest of my apartment. Nice in the winter, atrocious in the summer.

If you are planning on running dual GPU's, I wouldn't do it with older cards like the 9800. While they will work, you would be better off running one GTX 460 (example) for 200 bucks or less than buying a second 9800 for 100 bucks. The GTX 460 would smoke both of those cards without even sweating.

Also, the whole "is it cost effective" question arises. Would it be cheaper to just get a top of the line card and run it solo or upgrade your PSU and pay for two cards.

I already had a 1000W PSU installed in my rig so the second card was the only additional purchase I had to make.

*Edit*

PSU = Power Supply Unit.

GPU = Graphics Processing Unit.

Sorry, I forget how much of a nerd I am sometimes.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Is it sad that I understood everything you said ..? Haha

I see what you mean though and that actually sounds a lot better when you put it that way. I was also thinking of breaking away from Intel/NVIDIA and going to AMD/ATI to see what its got to offer. One of my friends is running a Hexacore processor overclocked at 3.2Ghz I think he said? That's only with using the GUI friendly overclocking system he has on his computer and not manually tweaking it.

I wouldn't go the SLI/CF route unless you are using a more recent card. If you are going to drop $100 a new card, you might as well just get a 4850 which is a much better card than a 9800, and is running ~$80. Its a DX 10.1 part so it will take advantage of DX11's improved AA pathways.

As for the swtich to AMD. Well, to be very straightforward, I run an AMD/ATI setup, but I've run AMD/Nvidia just as often (depending on what the best card I can get for the money is). But I have chosen AMD for a while because of how good of an upgrade path I've had. Think back to AM2 sockets... It ran DDR2 and came out in early 2006 (!). The AM2 CPU's could drop into the AM2+ motherboards. But the AM3 CPU's, could too. Technically, you could run the same freaking motherboard for 4 years and keep dropping in new processors. In the same time frame, Intel came out with 4 different sockets, none of which were compatible, and Sandy Bridge will be 2 new sockets!

Now then, for a hexacore, there just isn't a whole lot of demand for them in gamess. Now, if you were doing a lot of video conversion, it would help, but even then you are better off using an i7 with hyperthreading (4 logical cores, 4 "virtual" threads). If you go AMD, go for it because you can get a very nice Quad core Phenom II at 3.4ghz with an unlocked multiplier (free and easy overclocking) for $159. A comparable Intel CPU would cost you $50 more. And with a deadend socket.

For me, I churn my systems fairly regularly - about every 6 months I make a major upgrade. It is worth it to get a new CPU when my mobo is going to be still good. Right now, I could sell my CPU for ~$100 and get the above mentioned PhII and only spend $59 of my own money. Pretty good upgrade for $59.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Where would ya go about selling your processor?

Craigslist. My usual posts there go like this:

CPU model blah. Never overclocked or over-volted. Great process, just upgrading.

Take a picture of both sides (pins being good is important.)

Then list it for less than what you see it for sale on Newegg.

[Janke 1st MRB]

The issue with getting a newer card is some of them require 2 6-pin plugs from the PSU. I know with my card, my PSU didn't even have 1 6-pin (fucking prebuilts) and only had 1 molex (the GPU came with a 6-pin to 2 molex converter). I had to split my 1 molex into 2 and then connect the converter from my card into it. Looking at the GTX460 I'd need a new PSU of at least 730 watts (For extra comfort, and I've got a 360 now, so...), so you've gotta make sure your PSU supports your card. That, and I'd be buying a new HDD along with it, so I want the extra cushion of power for another HDD, and potentially a Blu-Ray drive in the future.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Janke 1st MRB

[Janke 1st MRB]

Oooo, blue ray definitely sounds awesome .. man I need to build another tower .. I'm getting the urge to create!!

Same, but the issue becomes gaming on wifi and my parents nagging me about wasting $1700 on a new i7 rig. They're less likely to yell at me for spending $400 on upgrades.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Most gaming systems will have plenty of headroom with a 500W PSU. Now, the big caveat is if you go SLI/CF.

What is important to remember is to never go cheap with your PSU. Ignore what the GPU's recommend. They are hedging their bets that you bought Unkle Joe's PSU rated at 550W. However, you buy a good quality PSU, and you will be fine.

Here is from my favorite tech site, The Tech Report.

The GTX480 system (not just the gpu) only draws 407 watts. But you would want more PSU. 93W it not a lot of headroom. But 650W would be fine. Unless you look at two video cards. Then it gets more complex.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Dillon 1st MRB

[Dillon 1st MRB]

Same, but the issue becomes gaming on wifi and my parents nagging me about wasting $1700 on a new i7 rig. They're less likely to yell at me for spending $400 on upgrades.

$1700? That's a damn big budget, even for Canada. You could go top of the line AMD for less than $1000. If you can re-use your case, DVD, monitor, keyboard, and mouse, you can have a kickass system for ~ $500. Intel will cost you a bit more, but you will get more performance out of it. Now, whether or not you would use that power is up to you. Some will, most won't.

[Le 1st MRB]

He's probably playing 1.3, Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear, and Pong.

Actually I can play DOD:S, CS:S, Flight Simulator X, COD 4, Company of Heores

[Jasko]

Is it sad that I understood everything you said ..? Haha

I see what you mean though and that actually sounds a lot better when you put it that way. I was also thinking of breaking away from Intel/NVIDIA and going to AMD/ATI to see what its got to offer. One of my friends is running a Hexacore processor overclocked at 3.2Ghz I think he said? That's only with using the GUI friendly overclocking system he has on his computer and not manually tweaking it.

You should know everything he said considering you are the deputy chief. Also those processors were way over hyped and aren't really that efficient. He wasted his money. The only way to get decent performance out of those (even though it's a 6-core cpu) is to overclock even further. He should've bought an i7 if they wanted to spend that kind of money.

[Dillon 1st MRB]

You should know everything he said considering you are the deputy chief. Also those processors were way over hyped and aren't really that efficient. He wasted his money. The only way to get decent performance out of those (even though it's a 6-core cpu) is to overclock even further. He should've bought an i7 if they wanted to spend that kind of money.

IIRC, those 6-cores go for only $200-$250. If you already have the mobo for it, its a decent enough upgrade. But I wouldn't bulid a system around it. There are better ways to go and I'd sure have to have a need for it.

[Janke 1st MRB]

$1700? That's a damn big budget, even for Canada. You could go top of the line AMD for less than $1000. If you can re-use your case, DVD, monitor, keyboard, and mouse, you can have a kickass system for ~ $500. Intel will cost you a bit more, but you will get more performance out of it. Now, whether or not you would use that power is up to you. Some will, most won't.

$1700 for an i7 930 rig with a GTX460, 12GB DDR3, 1TB HDD, a Blu-Ray RW and I can't re-use anything, I need this one to stay intact (It's a family computer, I'd be wasting my money on a personal rig, and my bedroom can't have Ethernet wired into it, so I'd be on WiFi)

And I realize 12GB is a retardedly large amount of RAM, I mostly want the bragging rights over a friend who has a comparable i7 rig. Not a very good reason, and a waste of money, but Goddamn if I think about futureproofing, 12GB of ram seems like it would last an age and a half.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Janke 1st MRB

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

That sounds pretty sweet Janke. I have a quad i5 I am very happy with. The main reason I went with the i5 was the DDR3 capabilities, because I figured it would be better to spend a bit more now and have a comp I can run with for several years with only minor upgrades. The first thing I will upgrade will defs be the RAM. Currently I have 4GBs and would like to get to 6 or 8.

[Dexter]

$1700 for an i7 930 rig with a GTX460, 12GB DDR3, 1TB HDD, a Blu-Ray RW and I can't re-use anything, I need this one to stay intact (It's a family computer, I'd be wasting my money on a personal rig, and my bedroom can't have Ethernet wired into it, so I'd be on WiFi)

1700$ still sounds a bit ridiculous. I'm running pretty much the same set up but I only have 6 gigs of ram and I've put the whole thing together for 1100. Mind you my case is a piece of shit and its got a cheap ass hard drive.

That and where are you guys getting the prices on these video cards? Fuck am I getting ripped off that bad in Canada? I bought a Radeon HD 5770 a few weeks ago for 140$ and that was a pretty good deal. You guys are taking about getting the same or comparable cards for 80- 100$? or did I just misread that? If not let me know where to shop and I'll be heading down to the states next time I need an upgrade

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

1700$ still sounds a bit ridiculous. I'm running pretty much the same set up but I only have 6 gigs of ram and I've put the whole thing together for 1100. Mind you my case is a piece of shit and its got a cheap ass hard drive.

That and where are you guys getting the prices on these video cards? Fuck am I getting ripped off that bad in Canada? I bought a Radeon HD 5770 a few weeks ago for 140$ and that was a pretty good deal. You guys are taking about getting the same or comparable cards for 80- 100$? or did I just misread that? If not let me know where to shop and I'll be heading down to the states next time I need an upgrade

Yeah, typically in the states its about 20 bucks less. I have that card too, what do you think so far?

[Janke 1st MRB]

That sounds pretty sweet Janke. I have a quad i5 I am very happy with. The main reason I went with the i5 was the DDR3 capabilities, because I figured it would be better to spend a bit more now and have a comp I can run with for several years with only minor upgrades. The first thing I will upgrade will defs be the RAM. Currently I have 4GBs and would like to get to 6 or 8.

It does sound sweet, but that price tag of $1700, in other words the remainder of my summer wages, is what's preventing me from buying it.

[Ford 1st MRB]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130552

Buy two in a combo deal and get $120 instant savings, $40 combo deal savings, and two $30 mail-in rebates...

Pure ownage for around $840 bucks. Figuring I could sell my two cards for about $130 each online... dropping this down to around $580 for two of the best video cards currently on the market... hmmm....

I really wanted to hold out on the 580.

I have a sad feeling my Christmas bonus is going straight to newegg.