Now THAT is Parenting.

[Luna 1st MRB]

[Doran]

see good parenting consists of a good ass whoopin

[Ford 1st MRB]

The sad thing is this guy will probably get arrested for child abuse because some liberal fucking idiot who watches this video will report him.

He is trying to keep this kid out of trouble, yet that whole point will be pushed to the side and the fact he hit him with a belt will be all that remains.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Ford 1st MRB

[Garrett]

I think he handled that well. His nephew could have been arrested for saying stuff like that, I guess.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Garrett 1st MRB

[Hughes]

Holy shit thats abit brutal, but then again soo is pretending to be a gangter killer

[St-Denis]

wow..... what a dad.....

[Zachow 1st MRB]

That's his uncle and a good one too. Look at how lazy parents have become when it comes to disciplining children. Last night I went to a high school concert and afterward outside there were 4 girls going at it with a bunch of people watching including the parents. When I told my grandmother she was so shocked that they would do anything like that with adults around in her time they would have gotten beat stupid by a parent. People say that beating doesn't accomplish anything. Ask this kid if he'll try something like this again I bet you he won't.

On a side note lol he disciplined him so hard the phone came off the hook.

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

Two thumbs WAY up.

As others have said - back when spanking was 'okay', parents who used it properly and effectively had good kids.

Even the parents who didn't use it properly, still had kids that would listen or show some form of respect to adults.

Now?

You've got high school 'guys' who will gang-up and punch a marines wife outside of a movie theater. Pretty sad.

I'd rather have people beating the shit outta kids with leather belts any day of the week than have kids around like we have currently running around ruining the world.

[Desnoyers]

I know what thats like, my Dad almost beat the shit out of me last night for not shoevelling a five foot section of snow beside MY truck...And when I said I was going to wait until morning when it was light out he got mad. THEN proceeded to get even madder when i said fuck it and went out side to do it. And told me "Use your fuckin head, do it tomorrow when its warm out"

But we ended up doing it together anyways, It was like an Ice shovelling Desnoyers stand off! haahahaa.

[Sarsons]

I agree with the argument but not the mean of which he puts it across. A parent should (in my and my family’s opinion) never hit their child with the intent of punishment or to cause pain or injury. While some will continue to believe that spanking, slapping or hitting your kids is the only way to teach or protect them, I feel that it leads to a very closed relationship. Do you want your child to come to you when they have done something horribly stupid, or have gotten hurt, perhaps they got drunk at a party that they were not suppose to be at and not wanting to get beaten did not call home for help. Instead ending up in critical care in the hospital after an accident trying to get home themselves. How would you feel knowing that’s your child there on that bed in complete agony and begging you not to hit them, when the only reason they got there was because YOU made them feel that they could not talk to you, because YOU never provided them a safe environment to grow up in and allow a bond of trust to form between you. Or how about the parents that come home to find their son or daughter hanging from the second floor banister, having killed themselves; feeling alone in this hard world, feeling that YOU are not a safe resource for them, that you cannot or will not help them. That really would be the worst and I would not wish that on any parent, but think about it next time you think of hitting your child... Just stop and think... what the repercussion might be down the road when they NEED YOU, but can't come to you out of fear. Think about it.. Please.

[Zachow 1st MRB]

Both my grandparents used to spank me when I was little and I always have a open relationship with them. I talk to my grandmother about the stupidest things all the time and what I've done in fact I live with her. It's not about beating it's about the abuse that is commonly associated with it. If you spank and make sure they know why and understand then you are all good. If you are just always yelling and hitting then you aren't doing it right either. I spank my cousins when they need it (at my grandma's request because she's to old to) because their parent's don't discipline or control them in any fashion. The youngest didn't talk till he was 3 he just pointed and cried. He had the ability just was spoiled beyond belief. When he was over here with us my grandma wouldn't give him anything until he used words and I did the same. He has turned out just fine.

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

I agree with the argument but not the mean of which he puts it across. A parent should (in my and my family’s opinion) never hit their child with the intent of punishment or to cause pain or injury. While some will continue to believe that spanking, slapping or hitting your kids is the only way to teach or protect them, I feel that it leads to a very closed relationship. Do you want your child to come to you when they have done something horribly stupid, or have gotten hurt, perhaps they got drunk at a party that they were not suppose to be at and not wanting to get beaten did not call home for help. Instead ending up in critical care in the hospital after an accident trying to get home themselves. How would you feel knowing that’s your child there on that bed in complete agony and begging you not to hit them, when the only reason they got there was because YOU made them feel that they could not talk to you, because YOU never provided them a safe environment to grow up in and allow a bond of trust to form between you. Or how about the parents that come home to find their son or daughter hanging from the second floor banister, having killed themselves; feeling alone in this hard world, feeling that YOU are not a safe resource for them, that you cannot or will not help them. That really would be the worst and I would not wish that on any parent, but think about it next time you think of hitting your child... Just stop and think... what the repercussion might be down the road when they NEED YOU, but can't come to you out of fear. Think about it.. Please.

Okay,

Those are some extreme ideas. Just because you spank does not mean you're going to have a closed relationship. Like Zachow, I was spanked as punishment. Note, I said as punishment. There is abuse (which is what causes the things you describe), and there is punishment. My relationship with my parents was, is, and has always been very close. I talked to them about EVERYTHING. I came to them BEFORE the first time I had sex because I had questions (insert jokes here). And my mom used to spank the shit outta' me!

My cousins had it even worse, leather belts? They had wooden spoons/paddles/whatever else used until it BROKE. They are healthy citizens who have good relationships with their parents too.

In fact, look at the times - these days no one spanks their kid, and suicide rates are far higher than when punishment was enforced with spanking... but using your examples, that should be the opposite.

There are a lot of variables that go into how people turn out, spanking (when used as appropriate punishment) is a very small portion of that IMO. And when you look around, and you see 15 year olds beating homeless guys to death just for kicks, or you see the YOUTH today holding NO respect for any of their elders, any people of power, any laws and without any concern for anyone but themselves... I'd bet 10:1 that they weren't spanked - ever.

While there are certainly parenting methods that work without spanking as a consequence, they DO have consequences that DO make the kids temporarily angry/hurt/frustrated with their parents. Because of that, are THOSE going to lead to closed relationships as well? Doubtful.

Lets compare a couple examples (and since we're talking in extremes I'll keep that in mind):

How about the parent who spanks his kid because the kid did something wrong, then explains why he got spanked and why he was in trouble (note he used spanking as punishment). The kid understands and life continues.

Another parent locks his kid in a closet and doesn't allow him to eat anything for 12 hours, explaining why he was bad and why he's in trouble (he didn't use spanking as punishment).

Which will lead to a more closed relationship?

My point is - any form of punishment when taken to levels of 'abuse' can (and probably will) have dire consequences. The hard part is quantifying what levels constitute 'abuse'.

But not holding children accountable and letting them be 'little individuals' and treating them as adults does NOTHING to open relationships, and completely fails to instill any sense of respect or consequence which they eventually will be faced with in life (and will ultimately probably lead to some form of internal conflict).

Just my $.02.

Spanking is fine, abuse is not.

[Tolomeo]

When I was younger my father would beat my ass with a belt, but only if it was concerning something significantly out of line. I would know when it was coming, so I would just go to my room, lay on the bed, and wait for him to come in and do his business. I know I deserved it, so I didn't try to avoid it because I knew I would not do any good. After reflecting on it today, it has had good and bad results on me personally. The good thing being I always think of the consequences of an action that could be sketchy, with the belt being the consequence when I was younger. And it made me listen to my parents, I was a much more quiet and isolated child. The bad, I can't help think of my dad beating my ass when I remember past memories of him, It definitely made me a much calmer child, but only because I was paranoid of being punished.

I believe there is other ways to strictly punish a child rather than beating his ass with a belt, just because it creates memories the kid will never forget about their parent, even if they wanted the best for them and had good intentions in mind. It looks like the people on this forum seem to follow a more militaristic and harsher way of life when it come to parenting. Of course it has benefits, but also heavy consequences some haven't fully considered.

If I ever have children, I know I will not beat him. I couldn't live knowing the way he would look at me in the future.

[Wells 1st MRB]

Alright – I’m seeing the trend that spanking is “ok” and since we all grew up with it I can see why it’s justified. I don’t agree with any violence against children, or people in general. Spanking IS violence and our society does a great job at perpetuating this (i'm doing it right now by contributing to a forum based on a violent video game!) I’m not here to promote other forms of punishment because some options such as timeout (waste of time, kids don’t sit there and actually contemplate their actions) and trying to come up with concrete examples that children can actually understand is not easy for parents who need instant results.

Do I think spanking is cruel and unusual punishment? No – what I don’t like about it is that it teaches kids early on in their life that physical pain is a good punishment for something they did “wrong”. Spanking is also not easily justified by saying “this is how we did it back the day” either since, obviously we’re not living in those times anymore. As the world modernizes, so should everything – why not punishment? Without delving into extremes – I’ll give you a personal example of exactly what I’m speaking to. As kids – we knew exactly what to expect when we got home after screwing up at school or at a friend’s house. To this damn day I still get nervous when I see my dad take his belt off. Knowing that spanking a child when they did something wrong led me to do the same thing to a student that I saw doing something wrong. Naturally I was utterly confused getting home only to get spanked for spanking someone else!! (As an aside – that was the last day my mom spanked me) but you see my point? Granted this doesn’t happen everywhere because CLEARLY not all children have my superior intellect haha. I know what really upset me as a child was seeing my dad beat my younger brother when he was newly diagnosed with autism and mental retardation – my brother had no idea why he was being beaten and to this day- he still strikes out physically and aggressively when he’s angry or thinks someone did something wrong that involved him because that’s exactly what he understands.

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

Alright – I’m seeing the trend that spanking is “ok” and since we all grew up with it I can see why it’s justified. I don’t agree with any violence against children, or people in general. Spanking IS violence and our society does a great job at perpetuating this (i'm doing it right now by contributing to a forum based on a violent video game!) I’m not here to promote other forms of punishment because some options such as timeout (waste of time, kids don’t sit there and actually contemplate their actions) and trying to come up with concrete examples that children can actually understand is not easy for parents who need instant results.

Do I think spanking is cruel and unusual punishment? No – what I don’t like about it is that it teaches kids early on in their life that physical pain is a good punishment for something they did “wrong”. Spanking is also not easily justified by saying “this is how we did it back the day” either since, obviously we’re not living in those times anymore. As the world modernizes, so should everything – why not punishment? Without delving into extremes – I’ll give you a personal example of exactly what I’m speaking to. As kids – we knew exactly what to expect when we got home after screwing up at school or at a friend’s house. To this damn day I still get nervous when I see my dad take his belt off. Knowing that spanking a child when they did something wrong led me to do the same thing to a student that I saw doing something wrong. Naturally I was utterly confused getting home only to get spanked for spanking someone else!! (As an aside – that was the last day my mom spanked me) but you see my point? Granted this doesn’t happen everywhere because CLEARLY not all children have my superior intellect haha. I know what really upset me as a child was seeing my dad beat my younger brother when he was newly diagnosed with autism and mental retardation – my brother had no idea why he was being beaten and to this day- he still strikes out physically and aggressively when he’s angry or thinks someone did something wrong that involved him because that’s exactly what he understands.

I agree for the most part. Especially in cases of autism / mental handicap? In no way shape or form is physical punishment tolerable. Having a severely handicapped brother (mental age of around 6 years old, actual age of 25) I also understand the difficulties parents are faced with in these situations. It's difficult, but physical punishment only leads to worsening of problems. You and I have talked a lot about our families difficulties because of these things.

I'm not saying punishment shouldn't 'modernize', but the way that most have 'modernized' it is to completely trivialize it by making the 'consequences' no where even comparable to the actions that earned them. Society (at least American society) appears to have this tendency to let way too much 'slide by' in my opinion, and this is evidenced by there being so much disrespect and self-righteous assholishness in the youth of today. There is way too much entitlement - which I believe stems from the American media and that 'gotta keep up with the Jones' mentality (no offense Jones!) So the ultimate 'blame' lies in a lot of places - but parents are supposed to be wise enough to guide their children to be better than that!

As I said before, I'm aware there are effective techniques that are out there that do not involve physical interaction. My hat is off to the people that can actually pull that off without failing at some part of the whole process. That is where most things fail IMO. To do it effectively it needs to be extremely consistent, you need to be very rigid, and it has to be followed through every time - there is no room for error really or the effectiveness of the whole process is then drastically reduced overall, and the desired effects are minimized 10-fold.

For people like myself - a single father of 2 boys, I simply can't do that every time. I try a few means of non-physical reprimand (time-in, time-out, explanations) but if the behavior continues beyond those, then a few swats on the ass and a long winded explanation ensue. I'm not a fan of belts and/or actual items being used to hit a kid - that's not spanking IMO. While I've seen it done, I was always spanked with a hand (and yes, when I got big enough I think it DID hurt them more than it hurt me - as the saying goes!). That said, I've probably only actually spanked my kids twice (they are 5 and 3) ever.

I just think it's a viable choice when used properly, and has received way too much negative press because some fail parents beat the shit out of their kids and call it 'spanking'.

[Ford 1st MRB]

I agree for the most part. Especially in cases of autism / mental handicap? In no way shape or form is physical punishment tolerable. Having a severely handicapped brother (mental age of around 6 years old, actual age of 25) I also understand the difficulties parents are faced with in these situations. It's difficult, but physical punishment only leads to worsening of problems. You and I have talked a lot about our families difficulties because of these things.

I'm not saying punishment shouldn't 'modernize', but the way that most have 'modernized' it is to completely trivialize it by making the 'consequences' no where even comparable to the actions that earned them. Society (at least American society) appears to have this tendency to let way too much 'slide by' in my opinion, and this is evidenced by there being so much disrespect and self-righteous assholishness in the youth of today. There is way too much entitlement - which I believe stems from the American media and that 'gotta keep up with the Jones' mentality (no offense Jones!) So the ultimate 'blame' lies in a lot of places - but parents are supposed to be wise enough to guide their children to be better than that!

As I said before, I'm aware there are effective techniques that are out there that do not involve physical interaction. My hat is off to the people that can actually pull that off without failing at some part of the whole process. That is where most things fail IMO. To do it effectively it needs to be extremely consistent, you need to be very rigid, and it has to be followed through every time - there is no room for error really or the effectiveness of the whole process is then drastically reduced overall, and the desired effects are minimized 10-fold.

For people like myself - a single father of 2 boys, I simply can't do that every time. I try a few means of non-physical reprimand (time-in, time-out, explanations) but if the behavior continues beyond those, then a few swats on the ass and a long winded explanation ensue. I'm not a fan of belts and/or actual items being used to hit a kid - that's not spanking IMO. While I've seen it done, I was always spanked with a hand (and yes, when I got big enough I think it DID hurt them more than it hurt me - as the saying goes!). That said, I've probably only actually spanked my kids twice (they are 5 and 3) ever.

I just think it's a viable choice when used properly, and has received way too much negative press because some fail parents beat the shit out of their kids and call it 'spanking'.

/agreed

[Wells 1st MRB]

The whole spanking "when used correctly" is what will always be argued because it's too subjective. Where's the line that states spanking in one instance was appropriate and when it is not? I think based on the information you've told me and hearing you interact with your children, Goodwin - I'd be the first online stranger to say "hey that guy is a good father". I personally think my father was a great dad - he taught me the extremely useful tool of just letting shit go. I might have gotten my ass beat, but I knew he saved me the best part of the steak for dinner later that night. Then he would continually tease me and needle me until I smiled.

I think that there are way too many other issues involved with parenting that the whole spanking argument just doesn't touch such as what is the involvement of both parents, how the children typically behave, etc. I could keep going, but basically it's too tied up with societal issues. Who would've thought that spongebob and rugrats would be deemed inappropriate for children? There's so many more things for kids to have to actually decide which is right or wrong. Too many choices that kids are now forced to face at such a young age. I remember getting my first cell phone - I was 18! My cousin's kid just got one for Christmas, she's 8! But I digress...point being, I completely get why it happens and am not throwing stones - but just note that it does play it's impact

[Ford 1st MRB]

I see it everyday at work.

"Hunter, do you want to go in time out?"

As the 7 year old screams at his mom and calls her stupid for not buying him a candy bar.

Or todays teenagers, who, and granted I understand not all of them are this way, have little to no respect for their parents. Who do things without fear of consequence. You can argue the point all you want that they will fear you to the point of not being spanked, but I knew better than to do something that would cause me to get spanked in the first place. Most of my physical punishment as a child came from bad grades in school, and by bad I mean a B was an ass whooping and a week of being grounded. I never dared make a C since I couldn't stand the thought of what that would entail.

I remember several examples of parties, or things my friends would be out doing, and I wouldn't go along knowing that if by some chance my Dad found out, I would be beaten.

I don't know, as cliche as it sounds to most of you, I DID come from a different time, I am close to twice the age of most of you after all. I don't agree with child abuse, and you can say spanking your child is child abuse all you want. I agree it is child abuse when used to resolve any and every problem. Violence should be and always was a last resort for my parents or any parents for that matter. My dad had other forms of punishment I feared worse than an ass whooping. Writing out every definition of every word in a section of the dictionary was the worst that I can recall.

My argument to that is not spanking your child and letting them grow up into little assholes that get and do whatever they want is a worse outcome than having them fear punishment.

[Wells 1st MRB]

I have to agree that punishment is needed - and certainly time out is pretty lame and nonconstructive. What I see happening now though is that kids are growing up with this lack if disrespect for more reasons than their behavior not being addressed at home. Think about when we Did respect our parents - we were also redirected in schools and in public. If a stranger or teacher so much as Thinks about reprimanding or touching a child in any way - kiss that job goodbye. It's this catch 22 that has parents caught struggling with the ethical question on how to raise their children. The opposite ends of the parenting spectrum is where we concentrate our attention, but those parents in the middle that use spanking in "moderation" don't make the news. I'll stop now before I actually do turn into a bleeding heart liberal XD

[Goodwin 1st MRB]

Once again, I agree with both of you - there's a lot of things out there right now.

And Wells you touched on the subject of strangers/education, which is absolutely insane. My gf being a junior high art teacher, gets to see the best of the best (worst of the worst?) when it comes to 'modernized' kids. She gets to hear about the fact that some of these kids have had more sexual partners by the age of 12 then her and I combined have probably had (disgusting). She knows about the whole 'this color wristband given means that they'll have sex with you' type shit that's going on with these YOUNG kids. And of course, I get the fun of listening to this stuff knowing that's the kind of shit my kids are going to grow up into. If it was up to me, I'd much rather be back in a small town city in the middle of American instead of Shitcago where all sorts of craziness abounds (I know, arguments either way). But the long and short of it is, I also get to hear about how the teachers hands are tied in many cases.

One example was when Dee came home and said to me, "I think this kid at school is really depressed and needs to see someone, I don't know what to do", and being the art teacher, she's the fun teacher people confide in. This 'loner' kid told her that he feels 'completely alone' even when around family at home eating dinner, he feels alone every moment of every day (no, he wasn't abused/spanked as far as I know). You would think a teacher could tell someone and get some help for the kid - but if she does that, she has to pay for it out of her own pocket. The school district won't do anything. Why? If nothing is wrong with the kid, that's money wasted. Another time, some kid shoved and/or swung at one of the teachers at the school - he's still attending school there and didn't receive much punishment at all. If I had been a teacher I would be fired because I would have knocked that fucker on his ass and left him missing a few teeth. The amount of 'do nothing' attitude schools have with regards to these things today is mind-numbing. Dee cannot even refer children to the office, because if they don't feel the offense is 'worthy', they're immediately sent back to her room - no punishment given.

What happened to the days kids feared the office? They'd get beaten with a board. I grew up in a catholic school - during the 'last hurrah' of the nuns. There were only 2 when I went there, and one of them EVERY SINGLE KID feared. I watched her walk up to the desk of a girl who couldn't find the right page in her book, the nun (Sister Catherine) picked up the girls book and chucked it across the room! She made her leave it there until class was over and then stay late to go over what was discussed in class to make sure she was paying attention. Can you imagine that happening today? That teacher would be fired and the kids would probably be given some sort of package to 'ease their suffering'.

You guys both brought up excellent points, and the long and short of it is definitely that there are a lot of things at play here - but personally I'd still rather see a good spanking than nothing done at all out of fear that the CHILD might be angry/upset/feel lonely for a while. The great part about kids is - they'll get over it.

[evo-lution ßÄЯ]

When i was little i was placed in time-out in my room was it constructive... maybe in the beginning. but after a while i would just grab a toy in my room and play quietly. when i was older i started to think about what i had done and that was when the spanking started in my house... for me it only had an effective time of about two years after that i was too big for her (my mother) to try to spank me... the last time she tried i took the spoon from her. as a punishment i see spanking as a last resort IF the other means of punishment dont work but! i believe that if a parent.... as i am not one... used other means first and stuck behind them any child would learn that in order for them to not be punished respect for adults is need.

For example i used to live at the mall last time i went with my gf i saw a group of pre-teen girls walking around looking like something off the street... um am i only disturbed by what parents let out of their houses because they cant control their children? i am thankful for the discipline my parents have given me. but i believe other forms of discipline can work just as well if not more so. i believe that if as a whole people start to show respect in every day life not just through disciplining the kids but by setting an example themselves

[Takel 1st MRB]

There are better ways of punishing a child, more effective to. Some people dont understand the difference between respect and fear. It's not respect that keeps them from being trouble when you hit them (or us, i should say, considering my age), it's fear. That could be classed as harsh but what has this kid one, we don't know so lets not judge this guys actions too quickly, lets call the cops and let THEM judge his actions!!.