Maple Leafs

[G. Wilson]

So how about them Flyers getting Versteeg?

Why would Toronto get rid of him?

I don't know but I hope he fits well on the winning team

[S. Mitchell]

Why did Chicago get rid of him... and Byfuglien

[Parker 1st MRB]

So how about them Flyers getting Versteeg?

This may seem like a biased opinion but I've been able to watch Versteeg play a lot and he's overrated. Good move for the Flyers though adding more depth, but they overpaid for the guy.

Why would Toronto get rid of him?

He didn't fit in anywhere. He couldn't do anything with Kessel/Bozak and the coach isn't gonna split up the MacArthur/Kulemin/Grabo line so what do you do with Versteeg? You're not gonna play him on the 3rd or 4th line so obviously you trade him. And not for anything, but if I got a 1st and 3rd round pick for a player like Versteeg, I would make that trade 9 times out of 10.

I don't know but I hope he fits well on the winning team

He will do fine on a line with maybe Richards or Brierre at center. But remember what I said - Versteeg = overrated.

Why did Chicago get rid of him... and Byfuglien

They had their backs to the wall with the salary cap. It was either Versteeg and Byfuglen or Kane/Toewes/Sharp.

[G. Wilson]

ahh, yeah I was watching some analysis of the trade and they said his play time was dwindling ever since the trade. I think he could be a decent powerplay/ 3rd line playmaker like Leino does for Brier. He has 35 points in 52 games, most of the time playing only 12-20 minutes per game, but 21 of them are assists. He's not so much of a stand alone great player, but needs a few good supporting guys for him to feed.

You're right that I bet he just didn't fit in well with the players or system in Toronto, I'm hoping he meshes well on the Carcillo line or maybe we move Zherdev and Versteeg takes his place.

To the basis of the deal, I think the Leafs are going to rebuild and they are bulking up on trades to get any young players they believe will help in that.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

I think you are right Wilson. Versteeg will do well playing on the third line away from the top teams checkers. They may have to move Zherdev, which wouldn't be a big deal as he isn't playing all that well for them as it is.

I don't really know what Toronto is doing. Was Versteeg so bad in the locker room that Burke gave up a roster player for picks or is this the sign of a rebuild? If it is a rebuild, why does Burke keep saying he will only trade for roster players?

That said, a late 1st and late 3rd aren't a bad return.

[Parker 1st MRB]

Like I said Gooderham, Versteeg didn't fit in anywhere.

Wilson isn't going to split up the Kulemin/MacAruthur/Grabo line and Versteeg didn't fit in with Kessel or Bozak on the 1st line. So he was playing minutes with 3rd and 4th line players who hardly have enough skill to help Versteeg's play. Burke's philosophy with lines are top six and bottom six. Versteeg is not a bottom six player so Burke made a move for him and got an awesome return.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

I get that Parker, I am just surprised that they wouldn't hang onto Versteeg and try and find a centreman that worked for Kessel and Versteeg.

[Parker 1st MRB]

I get that Parker, I am just surprised that they wouldn't hang onto Versteeg and try and find a centreman that worked for Kessel and Versteeg.

Well I watched them play and to be honest they're both hogs. They hog that puck like no tomorrow and it just didn't work with Kessel and Versteeg on the same line. Kessel is more valuable to Toronto so the ideal thing to do was trade Versteeg.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

Well I watched them play and to be honest they're both hogs. They hog that puck like no tomorrow and it just didn't work with Kessel and Versteeg on the same line. Kessel is more valuable to Toronto so the ideal thing to do was trade Versteeg.

Ahhh, that makes sense then. I guess Toronto is looking for a talented puck distributer to centre that line.

[Cozad]

i would pretend that the leafs know what they're doing but then i think back to the jeff finger contract and the brett lebda contract. burke has great name recognition, but he has done little to change the poor moves that franchise has made in the last decade or so... (i think he's terribly overrated as a GM, but thats a whole different debate!)

[Parker 1st MRB]

i would pretend that the leafs know what they're doing but then i think back to the jeff finger contract and the brett lebda contract. burke has great name recognition, but he has done little to change the poor moves that franchise has made in the last decade or so... (i think he's terribly overrated as a GM, but thats a whole different debate!)

First off, you can thank the previous GM of the Leafs for signing Finger to that 14 million/4 year deal. That was not Burke's doing so get the facts straight. Second, the Lebda deal was a $2.9 mil/2 year deal. For someone who has played in 62 playoff games over the past five postseasons and has been to the Stanley Cup Finals twice and brings some veteran experience to a young blueline on the Leafs/Marlies it seems that was a good deal.

Burke is not overrated, the man knows what he wants and gets it. I like him because he doesn't fall in love with people he traded for and if trades/signings don't work out he doesn't try to pretend they work (i.e. Beauchemin and Versteeg). He's moves them and gets value in return.

Kabarle - good puck moving Dman who quarterbacks powerplays but is less than average in his own end. A UFA in the summer and Burke got Joe Colborne (Boston's 2008 first round pick) and Boston's 2011 first round pick with a conditional pick. All that for a rent-a-player thats a UFA in the summer!

Versteeg - a 3rd line winger who is a decent scorer and is streaky. Burke traded him for Philadelphia's first round and third round picks in 2011. A third line player traded for a 1st and 3rd round pick?!?!?!?! Come on that's a deal I'll make everytime.

Beauchemin - HUGE WIM HERE - Burke traded this unproductive average Dman for Joffrey Lupul, and defenceman Jake Gardiner, who was the Ducks first-round, 17th overall selection in the 2008 entry draft, and a conditional fourth-round draft pick in 2013.

In two years Burke has gotten rid of all the former Leafs on this team from the previous regime and is slowly making it his own. I applaud the man for what he's doing and what he continues to do. And I guarantee he's going to flip those two 1st round draft picks in a trade and get a monster center for the Leafs. Granted they may not make the playoffs this year, but the team is young and is getting better. With all this cap he freed up in those trades there's no telling what he's going to do in the summer.

Brian Burke = awesomesauce!

Nuff said.

[Cozad]

i know that fingers contract was pre-burke, thats why I never once said that it was. notice in my first statement I was talking about bad LEAFS contracts, not bad BURKE contracts. and I went on to reinforce that by saying that burke has not changed the pattern of bad signings.

you are going to defend the lebda signing?!?!?!?! he is -17 in only 26 games! he has a whopping 1 point! the worst part? he had no real suitors. the leafs could have signed him for half that with no problem. just because he was a tag along with the wings playing a very sheltered and minor role, don't think that qualifies him to be much of anything especially at his price tag.

say what you want about these recent deals, but Toronto is still under .500, 12th in the east, and with a -29 goal differential. and the thing about the trades, is they look good on paper. but so did the phaneuf trade. and the giguere trade. the trades awlays involve picks and prospects and you never know how they will turn out. heck, you can't forget all the people the leafs gave up just to get versteeg.

you seem to be really passionate about the leafs which i respect, but there seems to be some blue and white blinders involved.

[Parker 1st MRB]

i know that fingers contract was pre-burke, thats why I never once said that it was. notice in my first statement I was talking about bad LEAFS contracts, not bad BURKE contracts. and I went on to reinforce that by saying that burke has not changed the pattern of bad signings.

you are going to defend the lebda signing?!?!?!?! he is -17 in only 26 games! he has a whopping 1 point! the worst part? he had no real suitors. the leafs could have signed him for half that with no problem. just because he was a tag along with the wings playing a very sheltered and minor role, don't think that qualifies him to be much of anything especially at his price tag.

say what you want about these recent deals, but Toronto is still under .500, 12th in the east, and with a -29 goal differential. and the thing about the trades, is they look good on paper. but so did the phaneuf trade. and the giguere trade. the trades awlays involve picks and prospects and you never know how they will turn out. heck, you can't forget all the people the leafs gave up just to get versteeg.

you seem to be really passionate about the leafs which i respect, but there seems to be some blue and white blinders involved.

Sometimes you don't sign people for their production on the ice but off it. For a young team like the leafs, veteran experience is needed. So yea I'll defend the lebda trade and what he got signed to. It's the NHL, not many players get paid lower than a mil these days unless their signed for the minors on a 2 way contract.

All the players we gave up for Versteeg?!?!? You mean Viktor Stalberg, Christopher DiDomenico and Philippe Paradis. All of whom are average or below average players? 2 of them will be minor league lifers and who have almost zero potential. Stalberg had potential but he was never the same after he got his concussion and Paradis was a pick up from Carolina for Tlusty who was another nobody. The only name that stands out in that trade is Versteeg, and thats who the Leafs acquired. If you're going to respond with a question like "then why did the leafs get rid of him?".... just don't. Read the beginning of this topic before you do.

Toronto was under .500 before the deals I eluded to, I was pointing out the return Burkie got on all of them. He spent 2 years cleaning out house and now he finally completed it. He still has 3 years left in his 5 year plan to put together a competitive team. Give the man a chance before you write him off. And for you to point out trades that look good on paper don't always work out tells me that you have tunnel vision when it comes to hockey. You have no sense for the game. Let me fill you in on something universal in all pro sports - TRADING AND SIGNING PLAYERS IS ALWAYS RISKY! There is always a risk involved with getting new players. Look at the NY Rangers, how many years have they had an amazing team on paper? How many times did they miss or almost miss the playoffs with those teams? There is always a risk when obtaining new assets in pro sports, the hard part is trying to find the right group of players.

Saying I have blue and white blinders may not be far-fetched, but judging by your comments it sounds like you're a blue and white hater. So let me ask you what team do you cheer for? Montreal? Vancouver? Colorado? Or perhaps you're a bandwagon fan of a recently successful team like Detroit, Chicago or Pittsburgh?

[Cozad]

while i certainly don't think my favorite team defines me, i am actually a red wings fan. and before you react to that, it really has nothing to do with my feelings on the leafs. i got into hockey thanks to nhl 94 on sega and the wings were my favorite team to use. so as i got more into hockey they became my favorite team. i know there's lots of wings fans that have an absurd hatred for the leafs. but i wasn't around for the old days, and i think the leafs were only in the east the first couple years i followed hockey. in addition, i was a season ticket holder for the calgary flames ahl team for 2 years. i have attended tons of hockey games in person in all of the american minor leagues (ahl, chl, echl) and try and watch nhl center ice on a nightly basis to catch games. amazingly i will even watch games like panthers-thrashers just to see how the teams are looking. i think you will find i am pretty impartial and rip on the wings when needed as well.

anywho, thats enough about me.

i guess what I am getting at is that it always seems to be a wait till next year attitiude with the leafs, but they never really get any better. think back to all the offseason hype about the leafs this year; it was the "burke builds from the back end out. they have good goalies, strong defense, and some young exciting forwards" yet giguere and gustavsson both have sub 900 save percentages, beauchemin is gone, phaneuf is still underperforming, guys like lebda and finger are bad contracts that aren't even playing, and even kaberle is now gone. versteeg was given up on and that line with kessel and bozak had some disgusting minus numbers.

the leafs are 28th in scoring yet just traded away 2 of their top 6 scorers. they are only 23rd in goals allowed. they are 24th in PP. 26th in PK. there really isn't anything good going right now. and since they are getting picks and prospects back, that means it will be a couple years before things get any better.

and i guess what i was getting at with not knowing how trades will turn out is the fact that the leafs are getting guys that are pretty far from the nhl. take for instance the leino trade last year for the flyers. they were getting a guy that was already nhl ready and just needed a change of scenery. yet the leafs aren't picking up lottery picks or guys that are close. gardiner is a 1st rounder, but still in college. i would assume he will need a couple years in the ahl to develop. colborne is a former 1st rounder. and he had decent ahl numbers this year, but is he nhl ready? the first rounder from philly will most likely be in the last couple picks of the round. that spot will mean a player that is several years away. the bostom 1st rounder will most likely be in the bottom 10 of the round. so it won't be a guy thats close. so like i said, they are getting lots of good assets, but they are assets that are not going to pay off anytime soon.

also, you are still stickin with lebda??? that seems like such a silly battle to fight. he brings off ice assets? like what? knowing how to ride a good teams momentum? he was generally the youngest and worst player on the blue line his years in detroit. what kind of locker room skills would he have? i am sure his 5 years in detroit consisted of sitting there listening to others. he isn't some 14 year vet with leadership capabilities. and you want an example of a much better FA signing? the wings picked up ruslan salei for less money and he has been very helpful to the team. much better than lebda ever was.

[Gooderham 1st MRB]

Oh great...